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AMD announce new processors


Ray Proudfoot

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Rob Ainscough

I found the issue with Hardware-Accelerated GPU Scheduling ... there was NO issue. 

The problem was with one of my USB hubs (or one of the devices plugged into the USB HUB) ... it was power cycling (disconnect/reconnect/disconnect/reconnect...endlessly) ... I verified via Device Manager and could see the USB HUB appearing then disappearing and repeating.  I suspect one of my Cats may have got tangled up in a USB cable.

The USB connectivity issue triggered the pauses in MSFS.  I removed the USB HUB and the connect/disconnect issue went away.  Just for reference I have 47 USB devices connected to my FS PC (controllers, GoFlight modules, RSG displays, etc.)

Once I cleared that up I ran the DX12 + HAGS + FG test again and there was a VERY positive FPS improvement of 92.9% ... 

  • DX11 = 38.5 FPS avg
  • DX12 + HAGS + FG = 74.3 FPS avg

MSFS-EGLC-EGLL-737-9-7950X-nv4090-DX12-RG_Totals.thumb.jpg.d8dd09f03a22951c869a45b55bf87cb5.jpg

MSFS-EGLC-EGLL-737-9-7950X-nv4090-DX12-RG_Charts.thumb.jpg.4539f31696360397eaff34d0a99eb0dd.jpg

Something I didn't expect was the increase in VRAM (21GB) and system RAM (19GB).

Here is the video:

Cheers, Rob.

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James Burgess

Interesting read, thank you. 

I'm about to purchase a new rig after being away for a year or so (travel and time getting in the way).  It's not that money is not a consideration but I'd like to buy something that will last me a few years and allow for the ever increasing demand on hardware.  I like to fly the FS Labs A320 family in P3Dv5 and will toy with MSFS. I'd normally go for Intel chip and and an Nvidia card.  But hearing about the new AMD chip (7950x) and the newly released RX7900 cards and now reading this thread I'm undecided.  Can you offer me some guidance please?  Appreciate you time. 

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1 hour ago, James Burgess said:

Interesting read, thank you. 

I'm about to purchase a new rig after being away for a year or so (travel and time getting in the way).  It's not that money is not a consideration but I'd like to buy something that will last me a few years and allow for the ever increasing demand on hardware.  I like to fly the FS Labs A320 family in P3Dv5 and will toy with MSFS. I'd normally go for Intel chip and and an Nvidia card.  But hearing about the new AMD chip (7950x) and the newly released RX7900 cards and now reading this thread I'm undecided.  Can you offer me some guidance please?  Appreciate you time. 

I have a 7950x and a 4090.  In another system, I did try the AMD video cards, but I ended going back to Nvidia as it seemed better supported overall in all three of the big sims.  

With the 7950x the 4090 my sim experience is solid and I have no regrets about my selections.  I rarely have any CTDs or other strange and unexplainable issues.  It also allows for higher detail settings without too much trouble. 

That said, I will say that P3Dv5 is still meh from a performance perspective.  It has niggling stuttering sometimes, shimmering, and it frankly shows its age.  Compared to my experience with MSFS and even XP, P3D still needs some work.  I'm not one to focus too much on fps.  Instead, I look for fluidity, consistency of performance, and good utilization of the capabilities of the processor and video card.  

You can't wrong with the 7950x and a 4090.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
Rob Ainscough
On 12/14/2022 at 5:20 AM, Daniel Jaffe said:

That said, I will say that P3Dv5 is still meh from a performance perspective.  It has niggling stuttering sometimes, shimmering

I was impressed with DX12 frame gen so hoping LM will include support in the future.  I actually experience more stuttering in MSFS with high LoDRadius and annoying pauses during takeoff and landing sequence, mid flight all seems smooth ... exactly the same as I see in the data charts above (bell shape).  But to be fair to P3D, it's LODRadius is considerably further out than MSFS so it has a LOT more rendering to complete per frame.  P3D texture clarity is better than MSFS (very obvious in 4K or higher resolutions).

Shimmering is a result of AA, suggest using 4XSSAA or even 8XSSAA with a 4090 ... be aware that the FSLabs checker/installer will keep trying to change your AA back to MSAA because it doesn't recognize the GPU and act accordingly ... SSAA is not a performance issue for the 4090 in any situation.  Also be aware that if you use GSX (FSDT) it's updater will also adjust what objects are used based on your AA settings).  Would also suggest you disable SMT (for AMD) and experiment with the various P3D affinity settings to make sure you have the AMD best cores setup for P3D usage ... I did find more performance by allocating P3D cores to just CCD0 (8 real cores).  In the office right now, but I'll post the P3D affinity settings (Ryzen Master will indicate best cores so you can use that to assign accordingly).

EDIT: if I were programming this and I had a reliance on AA settings, I would trigger messages and/or do adjustments at the time the user makes the AA changes as this informs the user.

All the testing I did above was with "base" defaults config settings (no tweaks in either MSFS or P3D).

I just loaded up (after 4 evenings of AI downloads and purchases) 500 AI aircraft from AIG and flight plans and set to max 100% (AI aircraft swarms) and was very impressed with results in P3D, barely any FPS hit even at EGLL ... I'll post testing details this weekend (I know this is a key test for Pete's setup). 

Cheers, Rob.

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Rob Ainscough

If anyone is looking to buy AMD GPU 7900XTX you might want to hold off until AMD figures out why it's heat pipes are not working correctly (110C is way too hot).  Fortunately I held off on buying the AMD 7900XTX GPU ... but even so, I never work with stock air coolers, I always remove them and install after market water blocks (EK most of the time), so I don't see these types of issues, but I respect Roman Hartung process:

This issues is apparently affecting the "majority" of customers, not just a small percentage.  Probably a case of "rush to market" without full suite of testing ... sorta like nVidia's power cable issues but impacting many more customers.  Rushing out hardware is NEVER a good thing, software can be fixed, but hardware recalls are VERY expensive ... this is going to hurt AMD.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Ray Proudfoot

Hi Rob. My PC builder - Chillblast - now has the i9-13900K and the 4090. I’m seriously considering this combo in a new build with the ASUS ROG Maximus Z790 Hero WiFi Motherboard and 32GB DDR5 Trident Z5 RGB 6400MHz Memory Kit (2 x 16GB Sticks).

Any thoughts on this? I’d prefer to stick to Intel and Nvidia. I chose the 13900K rather than the 13700K as it can be overclocked to 6Ghz. The 13700 and 13600 only go to 5.6 I believe.

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Rob Ainscough

i9 13900K is a little faster than the AMD 7950X on single core ... I'm not a fan of eCores or the 13900K power consumption but can't deny it's a great performer and drove down the price of AMD 7950X ... so win win for all. 

With latest chipsets, DDR5, and latest gen CPU with 4090, you'll notice a massive improvement ... overall latency is lower and thruput much improved.  I was at FSDT KIAD with 100% AIG AI in the FSL A321 with every (no exceptions) graphics option enabled or at Ultra and 4K resolution and still at a low FPS of 70 (inside VS) and on upwards to 110 FPS after takeoff.

Just do it!  You'll be fine either way.

All we need now is the Concorde for P3D V5/6 ... I really hope they aren't waiting on Asobo to fix or provide functionality in MSFS before they release both versions (that could be a long long long wait).

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Ray Proudfoot

Thanks Rob. I have to scale back several settings to get decent performance at some of the larger airports with lots of Ai. At CYVR today it was down in the mid 20s and killing Ai down to 40 didn’t help much. Weather was filthy too.

The 1080Ti is really showing its age now. The PC is being professionally built so I’ll check cooling options with them. PSU is 1000W Gold.

Concorde release must be getting close. Just 71 days to end of Q1. :D

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klaus legrand

@Ray Proudfoot i have almost the same config as you today, and considering an upgrade this year as well. Choosing the 13900k and 4090 for sure can't be wrong, however it comes with a cost.  I am considering the Intel 13700k or AMD 7000 series  and 4080 which can provide DLSS.

I believe this is enough to run well P3D and MSFS at 2K, unless you are targetting 4K ?

 

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Ray Proudfoot

@klaus legrand, yes, those key components aren’t cheap but this is a hobby I love and once the PC is purchased the running costs are very low.

I do wonder why Intel introduced the i9-13900K when it runs so much hotter than the 13700 or 13600. Perhaps the extra eCores and ability to run at 6Ghz. Can P3D take advantage of those eCores? If not then perhaps the 13600 is the better choice. I need to research it.

The 4090 is overkill for P3D but it will last a very long time and should be adequate for anything LM produce beyond v6. I still have no desire to buy MSFS.

I’ll continue to run at 4K and because I limit fps to 30 that will reduce the demands on the CPU. Maybe the i9-13900K might be okay after all if it’s only going to run full tilt at heavy airports with lots of AIG Ai.

Certainly in terms of clouds and lighting the 4090 will cope with everything thrown at it especially on a single display. I imagine so will your proposed 4080.

Regarding your plans, yes, the 4080 with 16Gb will be fine. Rob is the expert on the AMD chips but I wouldn’t expect you to have any problems.

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Rob Ainscough

From the review videos and test data I’ve seen there is a pretty significant performance difference between the 4080 and 4090 at 4k resolution.  My personal take is that neither one (4080 or 4090) is cheap and if one is going to spend that kinda money may as well go for the 4090 provide one has a 1000-1600 watt PSU.

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Ray Proudfoot

Rob,

I'm trying to keep an open mind about the AMD 7950X given you're so impressed with it. It's been more than 15 years since I had an AMD GPU and I've never had a AMD CPU.

Using the overclocking AiSuite does it play as nicely as Intel?

Looking at benchmark figures the Intel slightly outperforms the AMD as shown here. But in P3D would there be any obvious gain?

And this site says the AMD requires DDR5 memory whereas the Intel will accept DDR4. Will the increased speed of 5 show in P3D?

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Rob Ainscough

You absolutely want DDR5, it improves overall system thruput especially with these latest gen CPUs.  
 

Both latest gen AMD and Intel are very good processors … the 13900K wasn’t available at the time I got 7950x … and now EK have direct die mount and waterblock for the 13900k so i probably would have gone the Intel route had both been available…but they weren’t so ….

Cheers Rob

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Ray Proudfoot

I selected this in the Chillblast config utility...

32GB DDR5 Trident Z5 RGB 6400MHz Memory Kit (2 x 16GB Sticks) - Silver

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Rob Ainscough

What are the timing specs for that RAM?

The biggest disappointment for either CPU has been the chipset and motherboard designs.  Lack of PCIe lanes for a $1000 motherboard from Asus is ridiculous.  Apparently it’s even worse on Intel side.

Rob

 

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Ray Proudfoot

Rob, CL32 (32-39-39-102). Is that okay?

One question. You have even more GoFlight units than me. The 166s in particular need USB2 sockets. The Asus ROG board has them but they’re described as headers. I have a 10 port powered USB hub that most connect to. Is there anything special I need to ask Chillblast when they build it?

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Rob Ainscough

DDR5 timing looks good

i would use max 7 port hubs  … get two if you need more than 7 ports and don’t cascade.

there is a reason why many hubs are 4 port or 7 port … USB specification constraints to section 11.22.4 … technical but 1 byte granularity so reporting map (endpoints) is 1 byte  … upstream port 0 and 7 downstream.  
 

overall USB any version is just bad when it comes to multiple data streams at the same time … chain of backwards compatibility 

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Ray Proudfoot

I bought the hub back in 2019 when my old one wasn’t compatible with W10. It looks to be a 10 port but I only have 8 GoFlight units plugged into it.

2 x 166,  2 x T8, 1 x P8, 1 LGT, 1 x MCP and 1 x EFIS. They’ve always been fine in my current mobo with the hub plugged into a USB2 port. All I need is 1 USB2 port on the new mobo.

It’s only the 166s that used to give me problems with the displays going off after a while but the way they’re plugged in now to the hub has been fine for over 3 years.

That Anker hub is no longer available. Grgghh. I’ll see how things go with the new PC.

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Vincent Twisker
On 1/25/2023 at 1:08 AM, Rob Ainscough said:

DDR5 timing looks good

i would use max 7 port hubs  … get two if you need more than 7 ports and don’t cascade.

there is a reason why many hubs are 4 port or 7 port … USB specification constraints to section 11.22.4 … technical but 1 byte granularity so reporting map (endpoints) is 1 byte  … upstream port 0 and 7 downstream.  
 

overall USB any version is just bad when it comes to multiple data streams at the same time … chain of backwards compatibility 

@Rob Ainscough thanks for all the knowledge that you are sharing here. I have a few questions regarding the USB hubs. For my DIY homecockpit I have two powered  7-port USB3 hubs and four powered 10-port USB3 hubs connected to my PC. Is there any point in only using 7 ports of each 10-port hub? Or would you advice to replace those altogether by more 7-port hubs? I have been experiencing a lot of USB instability. I have tried to solve the hardware disconnects by installing two more USB PCIe cards to my PC, but I still have a difficult time keeping everything connected consistently.

If in the future I would buy a new PC with USB C ports...could those make a difference?

 

Vincent Twisker 

 

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Lefteris Kalamaras
On 1/19/2023 at 12:02 AM, Rob Ainscough said:

 ... I really hope they aren't waiting on Asobo to fix or provide functionality in MSFS before they release both versions (that could be a long long long wait).

We're not :D. (Although Asobo did fix a couple serious issues for us just a week ago - hats off to them for quick action).

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15 hours ago, Vincent Twisker said:

If in the future I would buy a new PC with USB C ports...could those make a difference?

No, USB C wouldn’t help.  

I would stick with 7 port max per powered hub (make sure HUB has sufficient power supply rating, higher is better) and make sure they’re all data ports.

Also suggest you try to isolate the USB device(s) that might be drawing more power than they should … this is tedious task of unplug all then plug them back in one by one and see when you get stability or power cycle issues.  Power cycle is obvious if the device has any LEDs, if not use OS joystick controller app to see if all your devices have smooth axis motion, any jerky motion and that device is having a problem.  BUT keep in mind that if a device appears to have a problem any you have other USB devices connected it could still be any of those devices that has issues.

Another method is to buy a USB monitor device ($30) that will display power draw inline, then hooked up to one device and see if the power drops or fluctuations in power readings … repeat for each single device only (one device at a time with no other devices connected) and see if any one devices shows excessive power draw or fluctuations.

One more thing to check is your power performance profile settings for OS, make sure it’s set to max performance and check that every USB device is set to NOT go into sleep/power-save mode.

Cheers, Rob

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8 hours ago, Lefteris Kalamaras said:

Although Asobo did fix a couple serious issues

Which one, there are so many … the CTD with USB disconnect?  Weather? Horizontal line in the horizon?  Primitive multi-monitor support?  Shared cockpit?  Rendering of water on top of buildings?  Nuclear waste land melting buildings?  Ridiculously short LoDRadius?  Game of follow the shadow as it renders?  Cardboard bridges and overpasses everywhere?  Epileptic AI that spin?  Mario cart turbulence?  50/50 LNAV? 

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Vincent Twisker
20 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I would stick with 7 port max per powered hub (make sure HUB has sufficient power supply rating, higher is better) and make sure they’re all data ports.

Thank you for the detailed reply. I will start with replacing the hubs by 7 port hubs.

I have checked the power performance settings for every device already.

Another question; is your comment about reduced speed regarding 64GB RAM compared to 32GB RAM still valid?

I was looking at these; Gskill TridentZ 64GB (2x32GB) DDR5 6000Mhz instead of 2x16GB. This together with MSI Z790 Tomahawk Wifi Bluetooth PCI-E 4.0 USB3.2 SATA600 M2 DDR5 mobo, Intel Core i9 13900K 24-Core (32 threads) to 5.80Ghz and the Nvidia Geforce RTX 4090 24GB

Thanks, Vincent 

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You want just enough RAM to run the tasks needed.  In the case of Flight Simulators (P3D, MSFS, XP), 32GB will be enough in 99% of the cases ... the only time I've exceed more than 32GB RAM is with some exotic tweaks (in P3D and MSFS) and fully loaded suite of add-ons.

Less circuits tends to overclock better, most overclocker records are set with minimal RAM (sometimes just one module since DDR5 is dual channel per module) ... two DDR5 modules gets you quad channel.  For flight sims quad channel is the better option given it's memory usage and paging of data/scenery.  For 3D shooter games, a single DDR5 module will be fine as those types of applications are primarily GPU centric.

I'd recommend two DDR5 2x16GB modules with the lowest CL you can find at 6000Mhz or higher.

Cheers, Rob.

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Ramon De Valencia
On 1/31/2023 at 9:44 AM, Lefteris Kalamaras said:

We're not :D. (Although Asobo did fix a couple serious issues for us just a week ago - hats off to them for quick action).

that is amazing news!!! the most awaited piece of software making its way to MSFS.

thanks!

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