Flight Simulator 2020

[Jean-Michel FRANCOIS]

Hello all, FS2020 seems very promising and could be a nice replacement for P3D, what about Fslabs ? Have you plan to port your planes on FS2020 ?

Thanks

[Norman Blackburn]

Hi Jean-Michel,

Just like everybody else here we are simmers first and foremost and of course share the same interest as you.  Right now though things are way, way too early to speculate or comment for us.

[Filip Nowak]

The biggest CONCERN I have about FS2020 is ... XBOX support... When I see XBOX support I don't know what to think. As a person who keeps 75% flying with XPlane11 as for me this platform is way better than P3Dv4 ... I still play with P3Dv4 as it's got its own pros no matter it looks like a disaster vs X-Plane 11 considering big add-on investment in XP11 and P3Dv4. Don't need to have "super" graphics as I'm not playing VFRs, but "this thing" that makes simulation different than arcade flying.

We'll see.

[Markus Burkhard]

46 minutes ago, Filip Nowak said:

The biggest CONCERN I have about FS2020 is ... XBOX support... When I see XBOX support I don't know what to think.

You should not be concerned about the fact that there will also be an XBOX version. Don't worry, MSFS2020 will be a proper simulator. But if a XBOX version will help bringing more young people to flight sim, then this is a great thing for the community and the aviation industry as a whole. 

[Artur Araripe]

Exactly. I mean, even P3D v4 can be dumbed down to a console game level so that you can do almost everything with a controller. Of course that would limit the range of aircraft you cloud fly, but, then again, the XBOX now supports mouse and keyboard, which would make simming in consoles with "all features" something tangible. MSFS2020 for consoles probably won't have addon support, people will be mostly doing Airforceproud95's kinda stuff and having fun, and futurely move into real simming on pc, with study level addons and stuff. It would work as a sort of stepping stone for most new simmers.

They'd be able to taste it, yet, to delve deeper into flight simulation, they would need to buy a pc. And, trust me, it works!

Want an easy example? Farming Simulator. It's multiplatform. Both versions are good, but the PC version allows for a lot more freedom (scripting support, etc), while the console version does have mod support, but very limited, which means, they can get new vehicles, maps and stuff, but they'd all work just like the default stuff as far as features are concerned, while on pc they could get opening doors, new crops, new gameplay features other than simply farming, like actually packing your seeds, making cheese, yogurt, stuff like that. It's much deeper and much more interesting than just the basic offering of the console version, justifying a migration to PC. Unsurprisingly, a lot of people got rid of their consoles and built a PC to enjoy Farming Simulator as it's meant to be enjoyed.

Therefore, I don't see the multiplatform support as a threat. It's actually the best thing ever for the niche, which will definitely grow bigger as it's gonna be a lot more FRIENDLIER for newcomers. I know a lot of people that would like to get into flight simulation but they lack the time to learn how to fly the airplanes and stuff. Imagine a dumbed down game where they could actually fly from day one and learn at their very own pace. How cool would that be?

It's positive for both Microsoft and addon developers. Imagine how cool it would be if the flight simulation niche was as big as the racing sim scene, for example.

When it comes to racing simulators, people can take two paths: the arcade way, with Forza Motorsport 7, Forza Horizon 4, Project Cars 2, or the sim way, with rFactor 2, Assetto Corsa, Automobilista, GTR2, the upcoming GTR3 (if it ever comes out). There's a wide variety of options. When it comes to flight simulation, though, there's only P3D, FSX, XPlane 11 and that Aerofly something which is rather expensive and definitely not interesting for newcomers yet very simple (who would buy hundreds of dollars worth of photoscenery and stuff for a GTA-like flight game?). MSFS 2020 is gonna be a Game Pass game, so it will be cheap, people will be able to fly  anywhere and it can be as complex as they want it to be.

Just throwing in my two cents.

[Luca vom Bruch]

FS2020 actually still uses simconnect, I heard in a video. Maybe it is not as hard to port. But based on flight dynamics I think a lot of adaptations would have to be made to neutralize the FBW.

I am sure MS would love all the best devs to make ports and encourage everyone. But actively invite and so on I dont know... because FSLabs has a bit of a past of unethical behavior not compatible with any corporate responsibility at MS.

I still think we will get the FSLabs bus in FS2020! But it has to be a success first. People might be cautious in the beginning because of the old MS flight and all.

[Peter Pukhnoy]

12 minutes ago, Lucaat said:

But actively invite and so on I dont know... because FSLabs has a bit of a past of unethical behavior not compatible with any corporate responsibility at MS.

In the FSElite interview they mentioned that they're already in contact with the big developers and they also said that they know a company who has been developing a single plane for 8 years and that they want to have that plane in the sim. Hmm, I wonder who they were referring to there.

[NilsUnger]

Aerosoft A330. 

[Sabine Meier]

2 minutes ago, NilsUnger said:

Aerosoft A330. 

i was literally thinking the same thing.

[Peter Pukhnoy]

8 minutes ago, NilsUnger said:

Aerosoft A330. 

Are you sure? They also said the plane was 'amazing' 

[Artur Araripe]

Everything is amazing for casuals 

They don't know the good stuff

[Luca vom Bruch]

Yeah like I said, I believe it will come if the sim is good, just maybe not as early endorsed as others. Could be wrong though.

[Artur Araripe]

If it performs nicely as we expect it to I don't see why it wouldn't get ported over as most people would end up abandoning P3D and X-Plane 11. Then again, a "what if" situation. No one knows if it's really gonna be good despite all the recent praise. There's a lot of things that could go either right or wrong from now on. I really hope they get it right, as a huge fan of the old franchise. 

But if everything they promised turns out to be true, MSFS 2020 would definitely become the ideal platform for study level stuff. Photoscenery, good autogen, good 3d grass everywhere, wildlife, addon support... Just think about that. It would be hands down the most complete sim( out of the box)  ever. 

But then again, let's wait and see. Only the future will tell. 

 

[Wayne George]

I honestly hope to have the FSL A320 in FS2020. It will be a huge disappointment if it's not to be honest. The FSLabs A320 is an absolute must for anyone that wants to be close to a real world airbus. 

[Artur Araripe]

FS2020 is gonna be lame without FSL. 

[Fraser Gale]

As much as I like the "eye candy" coming out of MS on this, there is one major (in my opinion) thing that would prohibit me from going anywhere near it, and that is this new model of subscription based applications.  I have no problem with having an option to pay a subscription for updates, but to simply ask people to hand over hard-earned cash each year or month is tantamount to being diddled.  I would far rather have substandard graphics (for nowadays not compared to currently available) than pay a sum of money I cannot justify coming off my wage each year, which is already going less far than it used to, for a simulator I might fly a few times a month or a few times in the year depending on various factors.  

Plus, if we do want young people coming into the hobby, then surely it needs to be as economical as possible?  I must have spent a few thousand on my sim rig over the past 15 years, but I could spend it when I could afford it, not every month to be able to fly it. 

I know we don't know what the pricing model will be for sure, but if it's subscription, I doubt I could afford it, far less buying addons for it.

Just my cautiously negative slant on this one...

[Artur Araripe]

The subscription based model is optional. It's like with most Microsoft games: you can either buy it or pay for Game Pass every month and play the desired game + a lot more. 

[Fraser Gale]

53 minutes ago, Artur Araripe said:

The subscription based model is optional. It's like with most Microsoft games: you can either buy it or pay for Game Pass every month and play the desired game + a lot more. 

Is this definite?   It isn't what happens with other Microsoft products I use...

[Artur Araripe]

Yea, it's like with Forza Horizon 4 and most games on Game Pass. You can either buy it or pay monthly for a game pass subscription. 

[Ray Proudfoot]

55 minutes ago, Artur Araripe said:

The subscription based model is optional. It's like with most Microsoft games: you can either buy it or pay for Game Pass every month and play the desired game + a lot more. 

Has something been announced very recently about pricing and related options? The only interviews I have seen are with the developers and they don’t make decisions about pricing. That’s left to the bean counters and I would suggest they are a long way from making that decision.

The only info I have heard is there will be a off-line option presumably with limited scenery detail; a cached area that you can fly off-line and the full blown streaming version. There would be an option to purchase the sim but it’s not known how scenery streaming would work.

I’ve seen nothing about requiring a Game pass which would only be for the X-Box version which won’t be released until the PC one is out.

[Artur Araripe]

There's also Game Pass for PC, which I use, and it's cheaper than the Xbox Game Pass because it doesn't have nearly as much titles available to choose from. The Game Pass logo is shown on trailers and stuff so it's safe to assume that it will be part of Game Pass as well, and it would make sense given it's a Microsoft product after all and that's the path that they've been taking for a while now with most of their games (and also some titles that they happen to distribute). 

[Ray Proudfoot]

I have no interest in buying a Game Pass. I just want to use the simulator and I have zero interest in Microsoft games. This is a serious simulator, not a game. If they push potential customers towards a Game Pass they will infuriate the more serious simmers. They need to tread carefully.

[Artur Araripe]

It's going to be optional. You either buy the game for yourself or subscribe to the game pass to gain monthly access to the sim and a bunch of other titles.

[Ray Proudfoot]

3 minutes ago, Artur Araripe said:

It's going to be optional. You either buy the game for yourself or subscribe to the game pass to gain monthly access to the sim and a bunch of other titles.

Do you have a source for that info?

[Artur Araripe]

I don't. It's just their usual business practice. It's been like that ever since the Game Pass was implemented, as it's been mentioned multiple times that it's gonna be available on Game Pass, therefore, people will be able to either buy the copy or get it on Game Pass. They won't charge you monthly for the right to play the game, don't worry about that. It's gonna be just like it is with all their current games that also happen to be on Game Pass.

 

 

[Ray Proudfoot]

You’ll appreciate that this game pass didn’t exist back in 2006 when FSX was released. I suspect most serious users of FSX / P3D have no interest in a game pass.

I’m happy to buy it outright but I don’t see how I could access up to 2.2 petabytes of data without further charges. It’s that which I would like answers to but I suspect they haven’t decided that yet.

[Artur Araripe]

Well, you can access 2.2 petabytes of data right now by going to Bing or Google Earth and they don't ask any money for it  

 

 

[Ray Proudfoot]

In that case the purchase options and level of access should be interesting. Thanks.

[Fraser Gale]

I'm not counting on anything until it is finished and ready to buy n fly.  Been there before...

[Luca vom Bruch]

I think the subscription is good, the azure-bing ortho can be improved. Also in ensures continous development. If a lot of people sign up. They need to pay for the servers supplying the on demand scenery. Also for that level of detail you cant really download all. Also it would be a pain to always download beforehand the area you are flying in.

With NO subscription piracy would eventually kill it.

[Fraser Gale]

Maybe they need to improve the file size of the scenery then.  Frankly, I'd rather stick with scenery as it is in P3d than spend money on subscription.  After all, a lot of time is spent above VFR levels if you fly airliners anyway...

I'm old fashioned when it comes to buying a product - someone creates it, I look at it and decide if it's worth buying, then if I do I like to own it - not the rights to it, that it a different thing.  There are too many assumptions made in the corporate world about people's income/expenditure and things like having a fast internet connection when a lot of people don't.  To base applications fully on internet download principles is flawed.

[Serge Plot]

HI everyone,

From what I understand from the microsoft team, they are not planning to make us pay any subscription.

https://youtu.be/jpBCZvuRXog (25:47)

Well, english not beeing my first language, I might be wrong.

rgds

Serge

[Vimal Anandharaman]

 What Microsoft is doing with this simulator is really amazing and its good to see some actual giants using their resources to improve our experiences. As they have mentioned you can buy it standalone. Also scenery wise, without the maps its pretty much impossible to represent the world accurately in such detail. Lot's of places in Asia have been poorly represented in simulators so I can't wait to see those locations in MSFS2020!

[Artur Araripe]

Have you guys seen the screenshots released yesterday?

[Ray Proudfoot]

I asked the question about whether MFS20 can cope with supersonic flight on this topic. https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/561220-can-mfs20-cope-with-supersonic-flight/?tab=comments#comment-4078624

The AvSim sub-forum is monitored by the development team.

[Sabine Meier]

https://www.helisimmer.com/articles/how-microsoft-flight-simulator-streaming-works?fbclid=IwAR0cSBe9Vvkl_Wwf3Z8B6JIGhBL5bH3oAdgQ7Ly6u8j9XuDvMETltFa7HU0

[Ray Proudfoot]

This article provides some very interesting information on how the new simulator can handle legacy aircraft. Perhaps the amount of work required by developers may not be as great as first imagined. The section titled “What about my third party aircraft?”

https://inspire.eaa.org/2019/09/30/an-inside-look-at-microsofts-newest-flight-simulator/

[Sabine Meier]

This sounds really good to me 

 

[Charles Macdonald]

5 minutes ago, koen meier said:

This sounds really good to me 

 

I was wondering if someone other than me picked up on that 

[Artur Araripe]

I hope there's a free upgrade path to MSFS2020 

[Andrew Wilson]

I hope there's a free upgrade path to MSFS2020 

Find me a team of full time developers that will work for free for over a year and you’ll get your wish.

[Artur Araripe]

Over a year?? 

Well, ya know, maybe Microsoft and Lockheed could partner up and merge their SDK into FS2020 so that people can also use their P3D addons  

There's always hope

[Timm Rehberg]

1 hour ago, Artur Araripe said:

Over a year?? 

Well, ya know, maybe Microsoft and Lockheed could partner up and merge their SDK into FS2020 so that people can also use their P3D addons  

There's always hope

Or you just wait what happens and buy it if its usefull - maybe FSL is smart enough to now charge you the full price again
...like mainly all other devs did already in the past. 

Its always and for every new version the same concerns.

WAIT

[Artur Araripe]

I'd be a little sad but i'd definitely pay full price again because they deserve it. You don't find stuff like that everyday. 

 

[Ray Proudfoot]

It's the only decent Concorde you're going to get. For those of you who have X Plane what do you think of the Colimata version? I've seen it on a friend's PC and to put it kindly, it needs a lot more work.