Andreas Schneider Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Hi , want to refund the soft i bought after two days. I payed over the regular page the full price. After the refund claim , i got the following massage form the support. While we completely understand your frustration towards this regrettable situation, the offer of a refund is applicable only to paid purchasers of our A320-X for P3Dv4.Since your upgrade was completely free of charge, we are unable to refund the purchase price in this instance.The previous versions of our software did not contain the DRM at issue and we feel it is not reasonable to offer refunds to customers who have purchased the versions of our product which were completely unaffected.We fully understand and appreciate the loss of trust in us because of this DRM issue.However, we believe it does not justify a refund for purchases of older, non-affected versions of our software.We have attempted to make things right by being open and transparent about why the DRM was there (to counter piracy and the great harm and loss of revenue this causes us and other simulator add-on developers) and by removing it when the community was unhappy about its presence.May we once again just emphasize that your system has not been compromised.Developers sometime make unfortunate decisions in the effort to protect their intellectual property.We have taken reasonable steps to fix ours.We hope that in time we can rebuild your trust in us and continue to produce high quality add-ons for the Flight Simulation community. I can not really get , what the Flight Sim Lab wants to tell me, can someone help ? Best, Andreas
Sabine Meier Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Only users who bought the p3d v4 version are eligible for a refund. Your purchase is for fsx and that version didn’t contain any DRM.
Andreas Schneider Posted February 22, 2018 Author Posted February 22, 2018 Ok , got. So FSLabs dont put DRM inside the Soft and because of this there is no possibility to refund. Hm , i my opinion this is not a very customer friendly practice. It could not be my problem , if FSlabs is not protecting there software.
O_l_i_v_e_rM_a_e_r_t_e_n_s Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Don't expose your serial key, Andreas! You have had an unaffected licence for FSX and you never had to pay for the P3D upgrade. Since the difference in licence prices for you was nil, FSL chose not to grant a refund. You still have a fully working licence for FSX, though, which won't expire, but instead you will receive a servicepack, free of charge , in due course.
Lars Hajema Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 8 hours ago, Andreas Schneider said: Hi , want to refund the soft i bought after two days. I payed over the regular page the full price. After the refund claim , i got the following massage form the support. While we completely understand your frustration towards this regrettable situation, the offer of a refund is applicable only to paid purchasers of our A320-X for P3Dv4.Since your upgrade was completely free of charge, we are unable to refund the purchase price in this instance.The previous versions of our software did not contain the DRM at issue and we feel it is not reasonable to offer refunds to customers who have purchased the versions of our product which were completely unaffected.We fully understand and appreciate the loss of trust in us because of this DRM issue.However, we believe it does not justify a refund for purchases of older, non-affected versions of our software.We have attempted to make things right by being open and transparent about why the DRM was there (to counter piracy and the great harm and loss of revenue this causes us and other simulator add-on developers) and by removing it when the community was unhappy about its presence.May we once again just emphasize that your system has not been compromised.Developers sometime make unfortunate decisions in the effort to protect their intellectual property.We have taken reasonable steps to fix ours.We hope that in time we can rebuild your trust in us and continue to produce high quality add-ons for the Flight Simulation community. I can not really get , what the Flight Sim Lab wants to tell me, can someone help ? Best, Andreas Andreas, I would urge you to remove your serial key. You have no idea how many people have bad intentions on the internet. Stay safe! Lars
John Barnes Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 26 minutes ago, Andreas Schneider said: It could not be my problem , if FSlabs is not protecting there software. Speaking of which. YOU have just advertised to the whole world in a public forum your serial number. Hmmm. However that aside. The information you have got back is correct neither yourself or your product were affected by the issues of the past few days. The refusal to refund is correct and legal. I removed your serial from here. Lets just hope it doesn't end up on Pirate Bay in the next few hours.
Lars Hajema Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, John Barnes said: Speaking of which. YOU have just advertised to the whole world in a public forum your serial number. Hmmm. However that aside. The information you have got back is correct neither yourself or your product were affected by the issues of the past few days. The refusal to refund is correct and legal. I removed your serial from here. Lets just hope it doesn't end up on Pirate Bay in the next few hours. For the love of god.. Please no, you guys have enough to deal with at the moment
Andreas Schneider Posted February 22, 2018 Author Posted February 22, 2018 He, this issue with the serial was quite stupid , agree. But what has this to do with the subject of an refund. I want the refund, because i do not like the software. Its not ok , that because of some crazy crackers the normal clients are putted in one pot. @Lars Hajema your one of this guys what are constantly mixing things in life ? Come on. Read my post and do not mix up things.
Sabine Meier Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 If you bought the product in Europe there is a disclaimer saying that your about to purchase digital content which says that you have no right to a refund.
John Barnes Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 The FSX version (which you have) was never exposed. The decision to deny is correct. No more discussion will take place here on this matter.
Andreas Schneider Posted February 22, 2018 Author Posted February 22, 2018 @John Barnes and what function do you have in this talk ?
John Barnes Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Beta tester/support staff and forum Administrator.
Marc Ehnle Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Andreas, kurz auf deutsch, dass das klar ist: Es gibt bei Software keine Geld-zurück-Garantie, wenn man etwas nicht mag. Nie. Nicht bei FSL, nicht sonstwo. Bei Software macht man sich vorher schlau oder hat das Geld eben ausgegeben. Ist so, war so, wird so bleiben. Den momentanen Refund gibt es nur, weil FSL Mist gebaut hat, sollte es dir entgangen sein, und die Kundschaft massiv verärgert hat. NUR deshalb können DIE, die den Airbus explizit für den P3D gekauft haben, ihn jetzt zurück geben. Damit erlischt aber auch deren Lizenz und sämtliche Nutzung. LG, Marc (clarification in german as I felt it was a language barrier thing..)
Andreas Schneider Posted February 22, 2018 Author Posted February 22, 2018 @Marc Ehnle Ok, das ist ja so nicht ganz richtig mit der Software, z.B fast 99% der addons für Magento (webshop solution) sind erstattbar. Aber ok , ich verstehe ja die Motive, das kann man aber doch auch einfach in einer verständlichen support mail schreiben. Gut dann verkaufe ich die Lizens eben auf Ebay Gruss
Lars Hajema Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 34 minutes ago, Andreas Schneider said: He, this issue with the serial was quite stupid , agree. But what has this to do with the subject of an refund. I want the refund, because i do not like the software. Its not ok , that because of some crazy crackers the normal clients are putted in one pot. @Lars Hajema your one of this guys what are constantly mixing things in life ? Come on. Read my post and do not mix up things. Im not mixing up anything. Just warning you before you regret something you did
Marc Ehnle Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Just now, Andreas Schneider said: @Marc Ehnle Ok, das ist ja so nicht ganz richtig mit der Software, z.B fast 99% der addons für Magento (webshop solution) sind erstattbar. Aber ok , ich verstehe ja die Motive, das kann man aber doch auch einfach in einer verständlichen support mail schreiben. Gut dann verkaufe ich die Lizens eben auf Ebay Gruss Bist du verrückt? Damit machst du dich strafbar.. Abgesehen davon, dass es nicht geht, die Serial ist auf dich personalisiert. Les mal die Lizenzvereinbarung... Softwareentwickler haben keine Verpflichtung, ihre Programme zu erstatten, wie es sonst beim Widerrufsrecht der Fall ist. Das meinte ich. Wenn sie es freiwillig tun, ist das kein Thema. FSL macht es nicht und kündigen das auf der Verkaufsseite auch groß an. Es klingt jetzt blöd, aber wenn dir der Airbus nicht gefällt, haste das Geld jetzt eben in den Sand gesetzt. Wenn du die Serial jetzt verkaufst, haben sie dich am Wickel, das garantiere ich dir. Darum ging es bei dem ganzen Theater.
Till Lukas Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 12 minutes ago, Andreas Schneider said: Aber ok , ich verstehe ja die Motive, das kann man aber doch auch einfach in einer verständlichen support mail schreiben. Hallo Andreas Wir denken das die obige Nachricht aus dem Ticket mit dem du den Thread begonnen hast ziemlich klar und verständlich ist. Käufer einer P3Dv4 Lizenz haben Anspruch auf einen Refund. Käufer einer FSX/P3Dv3 Lizenz haben keinen Anspruc auch wenn diese kostenfrei auf eine P3Dv4 Lizenz geupdated wurde. Ansonsten wurde alles gesagt.
Marc Ehnle Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Till, ich vermute, er hat das ganze Theater gar nicht mitbekommen, da ists dann wohl nicht ganz klar, warum jetzt die einen nen Refund bekommen, die anderen aber nicht.. Ich hoffe bloß, er lässt den Quatsch mit ebay bleiben.
Andreas Schneider Posted February 22, 2018 Author Posted February 22, 2018 Ok , letzer post. Since your upgrade was completely free of charge, we are unable to refund the purchase price in this instance Kein upgrade, kein free of charge. Die Absage muss so lauten: The 14-day "cooling off" period does not apply to online digital content, if you have already started downloading or streaming it. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm und "no blue" bye,bye @koen meier Thanks Best, Andreas
Andreas Schneider Posted February 22, 2018 Author Posted February 22, 2018 @Marc Ehnle alles gut, ich verkaufe es nicht. 1
Dieter Gerstlohner Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 Liebe Leute, ich habe die P3d V4 Lizenz und habe das selbe Antwortschreiben erhalten. Anscheinend bekommen nur die Ihr Geld zurück, die genau jene Version mit der Malware gekauft haben. Alle die im guten glauben geupdatet haben, sehen in anscheinend die Röhre.
Andreas Schneider Posted February 22, 2018 Author Posted February 22, 2018 Ich sag doch, Kundenbindung geht anders.
Till Lukas Posted February 22, 2018 Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Dieter Gerstlohner said: Anscheinend bekommen nur die Ihr Geld zurück, die genau jene Version mit der Malware gekauft haben. Alle die im guten glauben geupdatet haben, sehen in anscheinend die Röhre. Im guten glauben geupdated? FSL hat dir gratis das Update ermöglicht. Jene die die P3Dv4 gekauft haben waren direkt betroffen und haben die Möglichkeit eines Refunds mit gleichzeitiger Deaktivierung des Produktes. Die Diskussion wird hier beendet. Wir haben den Standpunkt jetzt bereits des öfteren geklärt.
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