Did FSLABS miss the MSFS train with the upcoming FENIX A320 ?

[Camille MOUCHEL]

49 minutes ago, Hon-Chun Chan said:

I think competition from Fenix can only benefit the consumer, if only to speed up FSL's development efforts. We as consumers fully expect FSL to release ports of the A32X (and hopefully Concorde-X) for MSFS, just like what PMDG is doing - if they can do it, so can FSL. Fenix has now planted the flag, and I expect FSL to respond soon.

The previous pace of development for the A319/A321 & Sharklets has been very slow IMO, and the P3D platform is really showing its age. I've been playing XP11 more over the past year despite the FlightFactor A320 being much less complex, simply because the flight model just feels more "alive". It's the same for MSFS, but now with global photoreal scenery, real fluffy clouds and a developer who's genuinely willing to support it long-term. I can honestly say that MSFS will likely be where most of my flightsim dollars will go, and I'll most likely buy the Fenix as long as it's not some hot garbage on early access, like Airsimmer.

I also plan on buying the FSL stuff for MSFS, if they choose to release them. However Fenix has now shown their cards and If their A320 gets real good before FSL releases the A32X, then it becomes a much tougher ask for many people. Like we've seen with the Captainsim 777, the early bird will still get a lot of sales even if it's trash.

 

agreed.

 

tonight we should see 2 autoland videos

[Tom van der Elst]

22 hours ago, Camille MOUCHEL said:

I totally agree with you.

That’s what fenix has done for 2 years: keeping radio silent. Guess thy went public to make themselves known so that potential buyers gets ready to purchase haha


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I think they want to fuel the hype, and/or some other software developers do not really

define what they are or are not going to do, thus -hoping to lure the fox out of the woods-

they start the hype so that public opinion might drive others to show their hand.

( as in how far along the others are, what their plans are, etc. )

It is nicely packaged, but still.

 

I won't lie to anyone : I do NOT like the words "High Fidelity product".

It sounds like my HiFi system, and I am not needed to control that machine.

I would prefer "study level aircraft" , and the fact they won't call it that says a lot.

 

cheers

 

Tom.

[Søren Dissing]

28 minutes ago, Tom van der Elst said:

I would prefer "study level aircraft" , and the fact they won't call it that says a lot.

Go and watch the Autoland video and tell us how you feel afterwards ...

[Tom van der Elst]

39 minutes ago, Søren Dissing said:

Go and watch the Autoland video and tell us how you feel afterwards ...

My FSLabs can do that.

As can the Qualitywings 757.

I don't see anything new but the simplatform.

An autoland .. i.e letting a computer land a computer.

that is hardly new.

[Peter Hastings]

 

18 hours ago, Mikey Miller said:

For fslabs sake I hope they have something lined up…because if not Fenix has played an absolute blinder here with regards to business strategy!

23 hours ago, Camille MOUCHEL said:

That’s what fenix has done for 2 years: keeping radio silent. Guess thy went public to make themselves known so that potential buyers gets ready to purchase haha

As to the first, it isn't business strategy at this point.  It's only marketing.

As to the second, perhaps this thread should be renamed "The Fenix hype thread".  As far as I know, no one knows yet how deep the aircraft will model all its systems, when it will be released and how much it will cost?

But, then again, it's not a FSLabs product and it's running on a sim the FSLabs don't support (yet)!

[Anatoly Briskin]

Comes down to devil you know at the end of the day.  I  have toliss and I have FS labs. Time split between toliss and FSL is about 70/30 in favor of toliss.  Reason being is because XP is so much easier to manage as a sandbox.  Fly FSL because I love the ATSU and GSX integration.  So given the fact that I already spent multiple hundreds of dollars making P3D and XP look good and the fact that I already know both products to be top notch why in the world I want to buy an unknown?  Sure, toliss or FSL comes over to FS I'll buy it. Outside of that I'll sit and wait and watch youtube and twitch and enjoy the hype and speculation. And I think FSL knows it.  Sure, they might be loosing on the new customer base that have never bought from them before, but they seem to have done ok for themselves for so many years with just P3D, FSX crowd never venturing into XP space.  Highly unlikely they will loose that crowd to something new and shiny and unproven.  There hasn't been that many converts between XP and P3D in airbus space we either fly both or fly one and we stick with it.  Boeing is a bit different PMDG is the only game in town, that is how I ended up in P3D.  

The real competition will be for existing "serious", "nerdy" user base who are sitting on XP and P3D right now.  If Toliss comes over to FS2020 first then yes FSL might suffer opposite is true of course.  But I don't think none of the big established and reputable airliner developers are in a big hurry to cater to hyped up xbox controller wielding FS newcomers.  They are in business of selling aura of elitism achieved thru the most accurate rendition that PC sim is capable of and to the crowd who demands nitty gritty performance details  for every buck they spend.  

[Camille MOUCHEL]

I think they want to fuel the hype, and/or some other software developers do not really
define what they are or are not going to do, thus -hoping to lure the fox out of the woods-
they start the hype so that public opinion might drive others to show their hand.
( as in how far along the others are, what their plans are, etc. )
It is nicely packaged, but still.
 
I won't lie to anyone : I do NOT like the words "High Fidelity product".
It sounds like my HiFi system, and I am not needed to control that machine.
I would prefer "study level aircraft" , and the fact they won't call it that says a lot.
 
cheers
 
Tom.

You are a bit pessimistic but okay haha.

Well they implement NORAD algorithms regarding FPS satellite to calculate the ANP meaning that checking the ANP for rnav approach makes sense now , even fslabs hasn’t yet implement that.
They modeled the real resolutions the LCD screen so that you can see the pixel if you zoom in.

They modeled the energy circle where we currently don’t even have that yet in fslabs after 4 years of release.
BUSS already implemented.

I think they said that they don’t like the term study level as for them
It need to be approuved by the authority or airbus to be able to be called study level so they prefer the therm: higher fidelity.

I noticed that in the Fenix, when selecting gear down, it will perform a self test on the brake and you can see the brakes accumulator pressure needle move, I can’t recall seeing that in the fslabs but I could be wrong.

Any way only times will tell

[Camille MOUCHEL]

 
As to the first, it isn't business strategy at this point.  It's only marketing.
As to the second, perhaps this thread should be renamed "The Fenix hype thread".  As far as I know, no one knows yet how deep the aircraft will model all its systems, when it will be released and how much it will cost?
But, then again, it's not a FSLabs product and it's running on a sim the FSLabs don't support (yet)!

Ues only time
Will tell, but sure looks promising.


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[Camille MOUCHEL]

Well well well

RTA, ETP, OFFSET and Step Climb already implemented

This Friday they will reveal they features review




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[Sam de Freyssinet]

3 hours ago, Tom van der Elst said:

I won't lie to anyone : I do NOT like the words "High Fidelity product".

It sounds like my HiFi system, and I am not needed to control that machine.

I would prefer "study level aircraft" , and the fact they won't call it that says a lot.

highly irrelevant - the study level label has been applied to all sorts of sim aircraft, rarely if at all is it accurate.

[Sam de Freyssinet]

If the Fenix A320 product is worth spending our money on, it does not make the FSL bad and vice versa. They can both be just fine. I do not understand the tribalism.

[Mikey Miller]

2 hours ago, Peter Hastings said:

As to the first, it isn't business strategy at this point.  It's only marketing.

I think you may of missed the point I was trying to make Peter.

Fenix seem to have done the hard yards in the development of this aircraft now, like any product of course you're going to have a promotional cycle and they're doing that exceedingly well right now.

The point I'm making and we of course need more information to verify this to be the case, is the fact that Fenix sim seems to now be in the position where they're first to market in MSFS, without anyone that can challenge them, as Fslabs seem to have decided that the MSFS market is one that they can wait on in the erroneous belief no one has the talent to bring to market a high fidelity A320. Fenix are most likely very aware of this fact hence announcing the aircraft when it is in such a mature stage, catching Fslabs out.

To quote a movie "To be successful you either need to be the smartest, first or cheat", by the looks of things Fenix have some pretty smart people working for them as do Fslabs, but one big thing Fenix will be is first to market.

As I said earlier this operating based on the publicly available knowledge; with all due respect to Fslabs they do appear to be in the mud.

[David Norfolk]

Overall i think this Fenix A320 was the boost that MSFS needed. Overall though i do feel it's good competition for fslabs. It'll be interesting to see what they say or do now. But it does seem that MSFS's future is bright. 

[Chris Frasure]

Here is my free $.02.  And I don't know how much that is in pounds or euros lol.  SO many developers have already abandoned P3D for MSFS.  I had been waiting on the updated KLAX scenery (will remain nameless) but once MSFS was announced, they abruptly stopped development for P3D.  Thanks to ethical developers like FSL who still continue to make fantastic add ons for P3D so that their loyal customers can enjoy their products.  Plenty of time for MSFS development with plenty of customers to come.

Thanks,

CF

[Thiago Braun]

With this release, the A32X market in MSFS will be indeed saturated. Hoping for an FSL A340 for MSFS. 

[Norio Sasaki]

I watched the FENIX 320 Autoland video.

How about RNAV Approach?

[Camille MOUCHEL]

I watched the FENIX 320 Autoland video,
I think Autoland is easy.
I would like to see the RNAV Approach video of FENIX 320.

Me too especially with the NORAD algorithms for the gps satellite . It will come in time.

Tommorow they will showcase the FMGS (mcdu) features


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[Lefteris Kalamaras]

58 minutes ago, Camille MOUCHEL said:

Me too especially with the NORAD algorithms for the gps satellite . It will come in time.

Tommorow they will showcase the FMGS (mcdu) features


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As I said in my original reply, we're very tolerant of open discussions, but it seems that several of Camille's posts have turned into advertisements. I am asking for this to stop, please - in the kindest possible fashion.

I said before, finding information is easy - all you need to do is Google.

[Duncan Odgers]

6 hours ago, Lefteris Kalamaras said:

As I said in my original reply, we're very tolerant of open discussions, but it seems that several of Camille's posts have turned into advertisements. I am asking for this to stop, please - in the kindest possible fashion.

I said before, finding information is easy - all you need to do is Google.

Yes this is quite right it is not fair on FSLABS who have a livelihood to consider.

 

@Lefteris Kalamaras will you please make an announcement soon of any updates you have on Microsoft Flight Simulator, I know you have shared you are in communication with them but with so many development houses now announcing projects surely now is the time to either confirm or deny that you are at least developing for it, you don't have to release product information but the community is desperate to know your intentions at least. The community who buy your products and support you, please ensure they keep supporting you and not someone else.

 

Kind regards

 

Duncan Odgers

[Holger Teutsch]

You have a working A32X on p3d and screenshots and a video without sound of an alpha version, no ETA no price?

Why exactly are you desparate?

[Camille MOUCHEL]

You have a working A32X on p3d and screenshots and a video without sound of an alpha version, no ETA no price?
Why exactly are you desparate?

Me
?


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[Holger Teutsch]

I refer to the post above mine.

Gesendet von meinem Pixel 3 mit Tapatalk

[Sabine Meier]

7 minutes ago, Duncan Odgers said:

the community is desperate to know your intentions at least. 

This is a massive generalisation. whilst i am sure some are very desperate for information others are a bit more calm and know that they will only get information when there is something to share. It is also important to know and understand that fslabs is very busy with their concorde v2 project, another unnamed project, and updates to the current bus. yes i said unnamed project. it might have a name on some of the posts but we do not really know what it actually is. so for that reason for it remains unnamed.

[Duncan Odgers]

Well certainly in light of an announcement desperate might seem strong but definitely people want to know

[Tom van der Elst]

9 minutes ago, Duncan Odgers said:

Well certainly in light of an announcement desperate might seem strong but definitely people want to know

I don't.

And I'm not desperate to hear from Lefteris either.

He, or who-ever is in charge ( probably his wife ) may react ( or not )

as he sees fit in his own good time.

I have been simming for a loooong time and I have seen a lot of developers

creating a hype and not delivering what they hyped.

At least 2 of those were for the A320 family.

So forgive me for not being hyped up about an autoland video showing something all the planes I posess now

can do : land itself.

The rest is just techno mumbojumbo designed to hype it up.

We'll see if they deliver.

Meanwhile, this here company hás delivered and if people want to hype up Fenix they

by all means should.

But not here, this is nót the place to do that, and it is nót fair to all the FSLabs folks

that worked so hard to give you nów what Fenix might give you in the future.

 

cheers

Tom.

 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Thiago Braun said:

Hoping for an FSL A340 for MSFS. 

Developing an A340 now would be a wrong step to enter MSFS in my opinion since it is slowly being retired by all major airlines, the A350 would certainly captivate the custom base... New aircraft, new technology, never implemented in any sim, but... years of development in any case...

[Duncan Odgers]

Yes Tom agree here is not the place to do it

[Tom van der Elst]

6 minutes ago, Duncan Odgers said:

Yes Tom agree here is not the place to do it

Thank you.

[Eric Fisher]

18 hours ago, Camille MOUCHEL said:

Well well well

RTA, ETP, OFFSET and Step Climb already implemented

This Friday they will reveal they features review




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They need to get a proper forum and not that Discord crap.

[Camille MOUCHEL]

They need to get a proper forum and not that Discord crap.

Guess they are still in closed alpha so they don’t plan do to so for now. I’m sure they will get a forum before launch


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[Danny Moore]

I use both P3D and MSFS2020.  I look forward to a little competition for 2020 but I also appreciate what FSLabs has and still provides for P3D. The FSLabs is one of the main reason I still enjoy using P3D. I look forward to what FSLabs has for the future. I see no reason to limit myself when I can enjoy the best of both sims. As far as this topic goes, it needs a little humor. 

 

[Camille MOUCHEL]

I use both P3D and MSFS2020.  I look forward to a little competition for 2020 but I also appreciate what FSLabs has and still provides for P3D. The FSLabs is one of the main reason I still enjoy using P3D. I look forward to what FSLabs has for the future. I see no reason to limit myself when I can enjoy the best of both sims. As far as this topic goes, it needs a little humor. 
 

Haha I totally agree with you


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[Stu Antonio]

Fenix and others who announced developing for MSFS still have a long way ahead of them, but they will arrive at MSFS eventually, even if it’s still 1 or 2 years to go. And I’m expecting to switch to MSFS at some point too, of course I will. The sharklets took almost 2 years to make, I just can’t imagine any A3xx project from FSLabs being released for P3D in probably 3-4 years from now making a lot of sense. I at least most certainly will have left P3D by then.

The only way I can see P3D staying alive in the long term is a massive update with a whole new approach to making a flight simulator and the virtual world. But right now I have the feeling P3D is the past, MSFS the future. And I can’t really say I’m sad. I’ll enjoy it as long as I can… but it can’t be generic autogen houses and shadows above the clouds forever…..

[Lefteris Kalamaras]

Gents-

while Camille might have a sense of humor, these posts CAN be offensive to people. In fact, I am seeing this thread really having run its course, but I'll leave it open (for now).

Again, those who want info on stuff, Google's your friend.

[Hon-Chun Chan]

1 hour ago, Jean-Claude Bailly said:

Developing an A340 now would be a wrong step to enter MSFS in my opinion since it is slowly being retired by all major airlines, the A350 would certainly captivate the custom base... New aircraft, new technology, never implemented in any sim, but... years of development in any case...

It's been retired doesn't mean it isn't an interesting aircraft for many people, including me. Look at TFDi's 717, PMDG & Rotate's MD-11, PMDG's Jetstream 41 and DC-6, QWings Bae-146 etc...

I would like to see a A340-300 even if it's a real pig to fly as in real-life. All it takes is a few very dedicated developers. However if I'm FSL I'll do it as an extension to the A330, as both share some systems.

As for Fenix, I hope the FSL team really start picking up the pace and get a product into MSFS soon, if they don't then I expect they may lose a lot of sales to Fenix. FSL products ain't cheap, and I don't expect Fenix will be either. As such having both addons is not financially viable for many people, and many will pick one over the other - this is where the earlybird advantage comes into play. To put it into perspective PMDG will release the NGXu for MSFS in a few months, 777 possibly by the end of this year, and 747 next year.

[Danny Moore]

Go ahead and delete my meme if you think it crosses the line. Don’t want to be hit with a warning or banned.


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[John Barnes]

1 minute ago, Danny Moore said:

Go ahead and delete my meme if you think it crosses the line. Don’t want to be hit with a warning or banned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just think LK is drawing a line to not cross. The meme would be gone if it offended somebody. 

[Seth Goodwin]

1 hour ago, Lefteris Kalamaras said:

Gents-

while Camille might have a sense of humor, these posts CAN be offensive to people. In fact, I am seeing this thread really having run its course, but I'll leave it open (for now).

Again, those who want info on stuff, Google's your friend.

I appreciate you keeping it open. If you parse through this thread and others out there be it avsim or elsewhere, there is some very good/valuable feedback for you guys from existing and potential future customers regarding whatever future plans you may have (a reason why I suspect you may have kept this open as long as you have). Obviously a play-by-play update of a potentially direct competitor isn't part of that.

[Michele Benedetti]

I agree with @Thiago Braun. The airbus narrow body market for MSFS is/will be saturated. Time for the wide bodies. And I agree with @Jean-Claude Bailly that the best aircraft would be either the A330 or the A350. A340/A380 are fading out unfortunately

[Stefan van Hierden]

Exciting times we live in. I am curious to see where we are in terms of possibilities in the MSFS platform and this project is one to follow. People say it isn’t ready but many of the well known “study level” addons we have currently available in P3D often run outside of the sim as well or some of it.

FSX, P3D and XP weren’t finished on release as well. It has been a continuous process of development and comming from FS95 myself I can say the sims and developers did create something special. 
 

Who knows where we are in about 5 years from now in MSFS but I am glad I’m here to whiteness it. 

[Domantas Ušeckas]

On 7/15/2021 at 12:14 AM, Camille MOUCHEL said:

I noticed that in the Fenix, when selecting gear down, it will perform a self test on the brake and you can see the brakes accumulator pressure needle move, I can’t recall seeing that in the fslabs but I could be wrong.
 

FSLabs does that. I just checked it few flights ago.

[Thiago Braun]

20 hours ago, Jean-Claude Bailly said:

Developing an A340 now would be a wrong step to enter MSFS in my opinion since it is slowly being retired by all major airlines, the A350 would certainly captivate the custom base... New aircraft, new technology, never implemented in any sim, but... years of development in any case...

I´d take the A350 also! Just thought it might be easier for FSL to go with the 340 first. 

[Paolo Fumagalli]

My 2 cents...I guess we all agree (or will agree at some point) that MSFS is probably the future. The question is how far that future is. I enjoy P3D, almost as much as I loved FS9 way way back in the days. But it will need a complete rewrite to make it "modern". That does not mean that everyone is going to jump on FS2020 in a matter of days. I was deeply in love with FS9 and "struggled" to move to FSX and ended up waiting until P3D arrived to make the switch. But, looking behind, I can see how much better a newer platform (P3D in that case) was. I guess FS2020 will get there, some day.

FSLabs let me simulate almost everything I want, to revise, to study and to practice ECAM almost like in the FFS. It's all I could ever need at the moment.

That said, I enjoy the competition and I honestly hope to see both Fenix succeed in their project and FSLabs port the A32X into MSFS at some point. More competition, better for us!

But as many keeps pointing out the few features that FSLabs is missing (RTA, Stepclimbs, equitime...that I would love to see simulated as I use them myself IRL), let's also be honest in regards of Fenix that they still overlooked some small details and it's still much an alpha version...

As customer we will win either way. Maybe this will push FSLabs to implement the last few features missing from the A32X or maybe we will see MSFS taking the place of P3D at some point. I'm excited about the future, whatever happens.

[John Price]

Hear, hear, Stefan.

I will be persisting with P3D because my favourite add-ons, including the FSLabs Airbus, which is probably my favourite sim add-on ever, remains on it, as will (as far as I'm aware) the new FSLabs Concorde. But if there were any way I could jettison P3D forever, I most certainly would.

I have not done much with MSFS yet because there is no high-fidelity/study-level add-on for it at the moment (apart from the DC6, which I'm sure is great but just doesn't tickle my fancy), but what little flying I've done in it I've seen visuals that are a thousand times better, beautiful night lighting (I'm lucky to see any night lighting at all in P3D), water effects, clouds and seemingly excellent performance. P3D performs poorly, has average visuals and ALWAYS has one or more niggling faults (the shadow problem darkening the cockpit in v5 is really ing me off).

As soon as I can jettison P3D, I will. But I suspect that won't be for quite some time yet, sadly. 

[Eric Fisher]

FSL would clean up if they released an A330 for MSFS. I would literally uninstall P3D and move immediately to MSFS.