Advice for new PC

[Oliver Mitchell]

Hi all,

A few years ago I was in the market for a new build for P3D for exclusively the FSLabs A3XX, however due to personal circumstances I never upgraded. Sadly, I'm still on FSX on my current laptop (nothing special at all - not intended for gaming or anything, so this will be my first 'P3D PC'. Despite being in the flight sim industry for over a decade, I'm not at all experienced when it comes to building a PC, however I have been able to come up with something on PC Specialist which I hope the amongst you will be able to advise me on. My budget is £1800 for the PC - I have allowed myself a further budget for software, addons etc. My aim would be to run the busses at 25-30FPS in the VC, perhaps with payware scenery, with Active Sky and perhaps ORBX Base. I fly exclusively in Europe.

Firstly, if anyone has experience with PC Specialist I'd appreciate some wisdom on the following: I'm looking at an I5-10600K (base is 4.10GHz), however I selected the 'overclock' build when I first began, and as such the CPU is listed as "Overclocked Intel® Core™ i5-10600K Six Core (4.1GHz @ up to 5.1GHz)". Does this mean that the CPU is overclocked to 5.1GHz? Or they are able to overclock up to a maximum of 5.1GHz, and may/may not do so as appropriate with my specific build? How would things perform at 4.1GHz without an overclock?

 

Anyway, here are the proposed specs:

Motherboard: ASUS TUF Z490-PLUS GAMING

CPU: I5-10600K (perhaps OC, as above)

GPU: 8GB RTX 2080 Super

RAM: 32GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DD4R 3200MHz (2x16GB)

Drive: 500GB Samsung 970 EVO Plus M.2

Supply: CORSAIR 550W TXm SERIES™ SEMI-MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET

Cooling: CoolerMaster MasterLiquid Lite 240 High Performance Liquid Cooler

 

Presently, I'm worried about spending all this money on a new system and it not performing as I desire, hence why I've come here to ask you guys! Of course, I could take the CPU up to an I7-10700K but from what I can tell, that upgrade might not be worth it in terms of cost vs performance gain. Any thoughts? Also, how does the RTX 2080S compare to the CPU in terms of a potential bottleneck or vice versa? And of course, any other comments?

On a positive note, I'm not one to expect 60FPS if all sliders are 'to the right' as some can be, as I've always been stuck with FSX for 14 years with... nearly everything to the left (I'm serious haha). So given that, I know I won't be one to bang everything to the right - I'm happy to stick with moderate settings on the new build if I can achieve 30FPS as described above, as anything on this new build will be an age ahead of what I'm used to.

Cheers,

Oliver Mitchell.

[JosefKolb]

Your Power Supply could be better in my opinion. 550 W and Gold (Gold describes how efficient it works) lead to less than 500 W available power in certain demanding conditions. I would suggest at least 700 Watt Platinum. 

 

The RTX 2080 is very demanding and an overclocked system as well. However you might wait what other users are saying.

 

 

[Sabine Meier]

The I5-10600k base is 4.1ghz and can turbo up to 4.8ghz. So pc specialist will likely overclock it for you to 5.1ghz if you add adequate cooling.  The I7 -10700K base is 3.8ghz and turbo up to 5.1ghz. 

Your system will probably run the fslabs in vc near 30 to 40fps. With sliders in the middle to the right.

As far as power supply i would go with what the GPU brand recommends and then add some extra because PSu will degrade over time.

 

[Jalil Errais]

i suggest waiting for the RTX30XX

[phil highton]

Get the best cpu you can i9 would be my choice if only running single pc, you are going to need a gpu to match more vram the better with v5 (directx 12 etc), 32gbs of system ram is going to be norm in the near future so proof yourself, and yep nvme's and or sdds is the only way to go and don't forget a good monitor or two plus warthog / x56 hotas or similar and pedals for starters!, sure you don't want to buy a speedboat instead?  lol Iam kidding I love it 

[phil highton]

And the advice on the psu is correct 700 absolute mimimum my friend 

[Oliver Mitchell]

Thanks for the quick replies guys!

4 hours ago, JosefKolb said:

Your Power Supply could be better in my opinion. 550 W and Gold (Gold describes how efficient it works) lead to less than 500 W available power in certain demanding conditions. I would suggest at least 700 Watt Platinum. 

 

The RTX 2080 is very demanding and an overclocked system as well. However you might wait what other users are saying.

 

 

@JosefKolb, how would a 750W Gold do the job? Any platinums seem to exceed my budget

3 hours ago, Koen Meier said:

The I5-10600k base is 4.1ghz and can turbo up to 4.8ghz. So pc specialist will likely overclock it for you to 5.1ghz if you add adequate cooling.

 

Thanks @Koen Meier. What would you say is classed as 'adequate'? How would a Corsair H115i RGB Platinum Hydro Series High Performance Cooler do in comparison to the originally mentioned cooler?

Other than that, any thoughts on any potential bottlenecks?

Cheers,

Oliver Mitchell.

[JosefKolb]

Some say the newest hardware doesn’t consume that much power due to its efficiency and SSDs.

Other folks in turn tell you the opposite.

You may configure your build here:

https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator

 

Maybe you can get a  fairly new used unit?

 

i 7-7700K, 4672 Mhz, Hyperthreading off,     Noctua NH-D15 Cooler

4 x 4 GB RAM at 2670 Mhz RAM,

MSI RTX 2070 Super,

SSD 970 Evo 1 TB,

1 Monitor 1920 x 1280,

Saitek X 52 Pro, Saitek Pedals, Mouse and keyboard

I´ve measured this configuration:

0,23 kWh per 24 h shows the meter within 5 minutes:

0,23 x 1000 W h x 60 min  / (5 min x h) = 2760 W  within 5 minutes

2760 W /5 = 552 W per Minute

if my calculation is correct.

My PSU: HX 750 Corsair  Plus Platnium (750W); I would say there is upside room.

 

I´ve measured when Prepar3d was running and the A321 holding short at the runway with active sky in use. The weather was sunny, but with rain clouds in the vicinity.

 

[Ray Proudfoot]

@Oliver Mitchell, one important thing you haven't mentioned. Resolution. 1920*1080 or 3840*2160? That will make a big difference to performance.

I have no personal experience of the 2080 Super but it seems to be close to the 1080Ti albeit with 3Gb less memory. That could be important if you're considering Microsoft Flight Sim. I limit my sim to 30fps (I set the monitor to 30Hz - check if your monitor can run at 30Hz). 60 is never going to be reached at most airports.

Have a look at Chillblast too. They are very competitive and I've been very happy with my system in my sig.

[JosefKolb]

35 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Oliver Mitchell, one important thing you haven't mentioned. Resolution. 1920*1080 or 3840*2160? That will make a big difference to performance.

I have no personal experience of the 2080 Super but it seems to be close to the 1080Ti albeit with 3Gb less memory. That could be important if you're considering Microsoft Flight Sim. I limit my sim to 30fps (I set the monitor to 30Hz - check if your monitor can run at 30Hz). 60 is never going to be reached at most airports.

Have a look at Chillblast too. They are very competitive and I've been very happy with my system in my sig.

I have mentioned: 1920 x 1280

I use 30 fps as well, that’s half the refresh-rate of the display.

 

by the way: to keep it free of microstutters: Prepar3d at 30 and nvidia inspector limits to 30,5 fps or sth. And a vsync of half the refreshrate.

 

Important:

every CPU is becoming wasteful the closer it gets to 5 Ghz.

[Ray Proudfoot]

35 minutes ago, JosefKolb said:

I have mentioned: 1920 x 1280

I use 30 fps as well, that’s half the refresh-rate of the display.

by the way: to keep it free of microstutters: Prepar3d at 30 and nvidia inspector limits to 30,5 fps or sth. And a vsync of half the refreshrate.

Important:

every CPU is becoming wasteful the closer it gets to 5 Ghz.

But that’s your system. Oliver has not mentioned the monitor.

[Oliver Mitchell]

48 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Oliver Mitchell, one important thing you haven't mentioned. Resolution. 1920*1080 or 3840*2160? That will make a big difference to performance.

I have no personal experience of the 2080 Super but it seems to be close to the 1080Ti albeit with 3Gb less memory. That could be important if you're considering Microsoft Flight Sim. I limit my sim to 30fps (I set the monitor to 30Hz - check if your monitor can run at 30Hz). 60 is never going to be reached at most airports.

Have a look at Chillblast too. They are very competitive and I've been very happy with my system in my sig.

@Ray Proudfoot 1920x1080 - I don't have a 4K monitor

What do you guys think of getting an i5-9600K and potentially overclocking instead of the 10600K? It would bring the price down by £200 ish. Also, is 32GB of RAM really neccessary? How would 16GB fare? Again, it's another £100 off the original price so if it there's not gonna be a huge performance gain then surely 16GB would suffice?

Cheers,

Oliver Mitchell.

[Ray Proudfoot]

@Oliver Mitchell, in that case th demands on the graphics card are far less. The 2080 Super will be fine for P3D v4 and probably v5 once L-M have sorted out the RAM issues.

I wouldn't drop to an i5. i7 minimum and i9 if you want longevity. Hard to say with 16Gb RAM. Probably okay for P3D but 32 is better should you want MFS.

The better the core components - mobo, CPU, GPU and RAM the longer the system will last. RAM is probably the one area where 16Gb will suffice for the medium term if you want to cut costs.

[Sabine Meier]

15 minutes ago, Oliver Mitchell said:

What do you guys think of getting an i5-9600K and potentially overclocking instead of the 10600K? It would bring the price down by £200 ish. Also, is 32GB of RAM really neccessary? How would 16GB fare? Again, it's another £100 off the original price so if it there's not gonna be a huge performance gain then surely 16GB would suffice?

Cheers,

Oliver Mitchell.

going to an 9th gen cpu requires a different motherboard in other words you need a motherboard with 300 series chipset and LGA1151v2 cpu socket. the 10th gen uses a 400 series chipset and LGA1200 socket.

as far as ram 16gb is becomming standard really fast but if you are not doing any content creating i think it should be fine.

[Oliver Mitchell]

15 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Oliver Mitchell, in that case th demands on the graphics card are far less. The 2080 Super will be fine for P3D v4 and probably v5 once L-M have sorted out the RAM issues.

I wouldn't drop to an i5. i7 minimum and i9 if you want longevity. Hard to say with 16Gb RAM. Probably okay for P3D but 32 is better should you want MFS.

The better the core components - mobo, CPU, GPU and RAM the longer the system will last. RAM is probably the one area where 16Gb will suffice for the medium term if you want to cut costs.

@Ray Proudfoot What is the performance difference between an i5/i7? The i5-10600K has a 4.1GHz base and turbo to 4.8GHz, whereas the i7-10700k for example has a 3.8GHz base with a turbo to 5.1GHz. Is the greater i7 turbo speed worth the extra money vs the i5? What about thei5 higher base speed? Or is there another reason you suggest not going with an i5? I know there is a difference in number of cores but I was under the impression that P3D cannot take full advantage of the difference anyway?

EDIT: Might I add I would look into overclocking the i5-10600K anyway so perhaps the performance gain from that would win the argument over spending the extra on an i7/i9?

@Koen Meier Thanks Koen - I'd be happier going with 16GB but if it would impact things I don't mind opting for the 32GB. As I say, it'll be exclusively for flying the bus!

Cheers,

Oliver Mitchell.

[Ray Proudfoot]

Oliver,

I've never considered an i5 would better an i7 in flight sim. Have a look at this comparison.

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-10600K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-10700K/4072vs4070

I'm sure others will chip in but personally I'd go with the i7 if you want to keep costs down from an i9. The old saying still applies "buy the fastest CPU you can't afford".

I don't have P3Dv5 so can't comment on whether it can take more advantage of more cores than v4.

[Ray Proudfoot]

Oliver, should you consider buying MFS these are the recommended high level specs...

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/microsoft-flight-simulator-system-requirements/

Note an i7 for the max benefit.

[Oliver Mitchell]

43 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Oliver,

I've never considered an i5 would better an i7 in flight sim. Have a look at this comparison.

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-10600K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-10700K/4072vs4070

I'm sure others will chip in but personally I'd go with the i7 if you want to keep costs down from an i9. The old saying still applies "buy the fastest CPU you can't afford".

@Ray Proudfoot Looking at that comparison I can't see a huge difference but there is a £150 difference haha  I get that an i7 is 'better' than an i5, but surely there is an argument for a 10600K if the base frequency is 4.1GHz vs a 10700k at 3.8GHz? Also, to clarify, can Intel Turbo Boost Technology run all of the time? As in, can the 10700K maintain 5.1GHz throughout a flight if neccesary, without an overclock? And of course the 10600K at a boosted 4.8GHz.

What do you think about lowering the GPU? For example, how would performance be affected with a RTX 2070s instead of the 2080s? Both with a 10600K and a 10700K? What about a 2060s? Of course, the 2060s really does bring the cost of things down. Would this bottleneck an i7-10700K? What about with the 10600K?

Cheers,

Oliver Mitchell.

[Nils Grube]

I run my i910900k with a Corsair 115i Watercooler and it does a perfect job. 
I would also think about a bigger SSD at least 1 TB if you just will use one SSD. With just 500 GB you will not be happy with that. 

happy landings 

 

Nils 

[Ray Proudfoot]

@Oliver Mitchell, you’re asking me questions I’m not really qualified to answer. When I bought my system from Chillblast I went for the fastest CPU currently available. Only Core 0 was clocked at the fastest speed with the others running slower. I did speak to Chillblast about increasing the overall clock speed and they talked me increasing the motherboard clock speed. It now runs at 4.6 but others have clocked it at 5.

There is a wealth of experience over at AvSim where there are dedicated hardware fora. I used that for guidance. I’m not criticising the suggestions you’ve had here but there are far more people over there.

I’d stick with a fast GPU. P3Dv5 in particular makes great use of the GPU and you don’t want that to be the weak link. A system is only as strong as its weakest link. 

You can boost performance by lowering the sliders in P3D of course. That costs nothing. 

I’d also agree with Nils. 1Gb SSD won’t cost that much more.

[Ray Proudfoot]

I see you've just posted at AvSim. I've just approved your first post. Let's see what you get recommended over there.

[Oliver Mitchell]

2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I see you've just posted at AvSim. I've just approved your first post. Let's see what you get recommended over there.

Thanks for all the help @Ray Proudfoot (and others )! I'm sure I'll be able to make a decision soon!

Cheers,

Oliver Mitchell.