A330

[Andrew Wilson]

Hi Ray,
I’m going to need to ask you to refrain from commenting any further on our business practises. Most of your posts are indeed factually incorrect, and I’m concerned others might become misinformed.
Let’s keep this thread light hearted - its our job at FSL to worry about these things. Thanks!

[Ray Proudfoot]

OKay Andrew, understood. I've removed the sentence that was an assumption.

[Jamil Fraser]

The team at Flight Sim Labs has proven itself to be the de facto source for great Airbus products.  I've seen many attempts at the A320 family over the years that have been quite the disappointment.  I'm happy with my FSLabs A320 & A321 (looking forward to the upcoming updates, especially the sharklets for the improved performance).

Going back to the original post, if FSLabs made an A330, I trust it would be a good product and a great addition to the limited long-haul options we have today - the A330 is not on my wish-list but I would buy it based on the quality of the A320 and because we need more high quality wide-body aircraft (even in the virtual world it can feel odd to send a 777 on a job more suited for an A330 ).

If FSLabs continues its A3XX series then I have one plane on my wish-list for it to consider: Airbus A350.  Whenever the day comes that an A350 can be made with the quality I believe FSLabs can deliver, I'll be ready for it!

-Jamil

[David Norfolk]

Ray,

As Andrew has said, I think it's best we leave it as it is as we don't want things to get complicated. I understand your point of view & I hope you can see mine too . Stay safe! 

[Ray Proudfoot]

Hi David, yes I can. Nothing more to add really. What will be will be.

Stay safe too.

[Sammy Holmes Jr]

I am sticking to my first statement, we need an A350 Payware study level aircraft in the sim.  It literally is the only plane missing on the P3D side of the house. 

Their are multiple versions of aircraft mentioned in here like the A330.  Why waste time continuing to produce stuff that is already out when we can get something yet to be done on any level in the P3D / MS2020 / FSX side? 

If we're looking to do long hauls than the A350 covers it, if you are looking to do medium flights, the A350 covers it.  You have flexibility and range in the A350-941 and capacity and range in the A350-1000 as an Add-on to be done after the -900 or release them together.

Like everyone in here, just my opinion of course.

[Sabine Meier]

But you lack the access to the data

[Robert Sutherland]

15 hours ago, Koen Meier said:

But you lack the access to the data

In fairness, I think this argument is a bit dated. The first flight was back in June 2013. Nearly 7 years ago. And the first commercial flight took place nearly five and a half years ago. There comes a point where understanding of performance data and systems becomes more broad. 

 

[Christoph Sebek]

9 minutes ago, Robert Sutherland said:

In fairness, I think this argument is a bit dated. The first flight was back in June 2013. Nearly 7 years ago. And the first commercial flight took place nearly five and a half years ago. There comes a point where understanding of performance data and systems becomes more broad. 

 

And why is there no (FSL/PMDG/QW/TFDI) A380 out there yet?

Been on the market much longer. 

[Robert Sutherland]

1 minute ago, Christoph Sebek said:

And why is there no (FSL/PMDG/QW/TFDI) A380 out there yet?

Been on the market much longer. 

Good point. I'd personally love to see a high-fidelity A380 on the market, but I also appreciate that because of a limited number being sold and in operation (with that number now going down further) there might just be a lack of interest in it.  

[Christoph Sebek]

2 hours ago, Robert Sutherland said:

Good point. I'd personally love to see a high-fidelity A380 on the market, but I also appreciate that because of a limited number being sold and in operation (with that number now going down further) there might just be a lack of interest in it.  

Agreed.

[Johannes Lehmann]

14 hours ago, Robert Sutherland said:

Good point. I'd personally love to see a high-fidelity A380 on the market, but I also appreciate that because of a limited number being sold and in operation (with that number now going down further) there might just be a lack of interest in it.  

That might be true, but following that logic there should never have been a Concorde add-on. Still there is one, probably because the Concorde is one of the most spectacular aircraft ever built. (Which the A380 is as well, so there probably is a different reason for the total lack of A380 Add-Ons)

[Sammy Holmes Jr]

4 hours ago, Johannes Lehmann said:

That might be true, but following that logic there should never have been a Concorde add-on. Still there is one, probably because the Concorde is one of the most spectacular aircraft ever built. (Which the A380 is as well, so there probably is a different reason for the total lack of A380 Add-Ons)

I myself believe it is not due to the lack of data but more so interest.  At the sim level, it is just silly to have an A380 flying from Miami to Washington DC.  The A380 was built for extra long-hauls as we all know and if we are being realistic, not many people in the sim world are doing 14-17 hour flights.  Most do a 2-5 hour flight and that is pushing it for them.  The hardcore go for the long-hauls but it is much less of a crowd than the medium range.  I too agree that the lack of carriers, recent cut in production to the Commercial Industry, more economical aircraft being built, and WAAAY less of a need for an aircraft like an A380 is the big reason but even more so moving into the Cargo realm in the future it just doesn't make logic from a "business" stand point for any major developer to take that risk.  I just do not see the reward in it and ultimately in the sim community it boils down to risk versus reward as I am learning working with Flightbeam.

Now, the A350 on the other hand as does the A330 flies plenty of short, medium, long, and ultra long hauls which is why I feel it is a suitable candidate for production, and to be honest if FSL does not create it, I can promise you someone else will, that is just keeping it real.  The A350 is TOO much of a competitor to the B789 and the A35K is equally to the B78X for someone not to do it.  There is NO competitor to the A380 except for the B748 and again look at where that landed.  It was marketed as the next big thing and ended up being a COMPLETE wash in the Commercial industry except for a few carriers, those mainly being Lufthansa and Korean Air.  However, it (B748) has found success in the Cargo area which is where the A380 will end up as well.  It is just not suitable for this day and age economically for the Airline industry. 

I still think the A350 is the best move going forward, but hell, what do I know.  It's only one of the hottest talked about aircraft right now and over the last 2-3 years.  In the news more now than ever with Delta announcing the retirement of their B777 fleet and switching to the A350 solely for there Long Haul needs minus the A330 routes they have.  Sounds like a prime time for a third party developer to jump on the train and announce they are doing it before someone else does.  I don't know about you all but I like riding in the front of the train leading the way more so then following with another A32X or A33X series being released.

Good chat, love everyone opinions and views on the matter.  I am not biased to any particular manufacturer Boeing or Airbus, I just love nice aircraft to fly and the A350 is missing in that category.

[Christoph Sebek]

Someone else is doing the Concorde, apparently close to release according to FSElite - who knows, we may not see a FSL Concorde ever.

Only they themselves know.

[Troy Kretzul]

On 5/14/2020 at 6:14 AM, Ray Proudfoot said:

They’ve already stated it will have limited functionality and certainly won’t be reference level unlike the FSL version.

Some will be drawn to it but not anyone serious I think.

An FSL Concorde for FS2020/P3Dv5 is really the only way to do this beautiful aircraft justice.

[Ross McDonagh]

I’d like to point our unless the “current A330 maker” adds in a quality -200 version, there’s still a need for a good solid A330 lineup.  I’ll trust in FSL to bring what’s right to the market.  They’ve proved themselves time and time again.  I’ve been waiting to fly a quality Airbus since the years of waiting for the FS9 Air****er (not sure if I can say the actual companies names in here?) That company obviously went the way of the dodo while FSL has stayed the course.   

Right at this moment, I’m currently waiting to build a new PC based on the FSL P3D V5 releases.  My entire sim will be based off the FSL A320/A321 package.  While I’d love to see an A330-200 in P3D V5 ASAP, it’s up to the developers to bring to the market what they think is right.  
 

That’s my 2¢ for what it’s worth-and back in the day-I switched from FSX to FS9 to be able to fly the SSTSim Concorde-the progenitor of FSL Concorde.  (Speaking of progenitors-Don’t forget folks.  The Concorde was also the progenitor of all Airbus.  The aircraft-systems, FBW etc. all began in Concorde and were refined and upgraded along the way) 

 

Patience is a virtue seldom found in a sim community.   We’ll get what the devs bring us for P3D V5 and beyond as well as XP 11 and beyond.   Who knows what’ll happen with MFS 2020 moving forward.  

For now, I’d like to remind everyone to

Keep Calm and Push for Managed® 
 

;-)

[Michele Benedetti]

I also would very very appreciate an A330-200...because of the value that it has to me...it was the first long haul aircraft that I flew on, together with the airbus A340-300. Speaking of which, I'd also love an A340 rendition from FsLabs, but I think that's the last possible choice

[Ross McDonagh]

58 minutes ago, Michele Benedetti said:

it was the first long haul aircraft that I flew on

I’ve spent a total of about 3 days of my life onboard A330-200’s going from KBOS and KJFK to PHNL and KLAX.   20 hour round trip give or take.  About 11 there and 9 back due to headwinds.   It’s sad not to see a PROPER Hawaiian Airlines A330-200 available in P3D.  Sure you can get the repaint/livery for the available -300 but it’s just not the same.  
 

The taller tail on the -200 coupled with the shorter length really makes it a gorgeous looking plane with that slender, clean Airbus wing with no vortex stuff on it to foul it up.  
 

 

[Michele Benedetti]

I’ve always liked the -200 better than the -300, it just looks better to me

[Marc Ehnle]

I‘d love a 330 or 340 too, any subversion. However I can‘t imagine the 350 or 380 in P3D. PFD and ND are no problem, neither are the aircraft systems etc. But the 350/380 flightdecks have become windows offices offering all kind od imformation that is not just a possibility but integrated into the processes and work flows. There is a keyboard on the table, you work more with a touchpad cursor than with knobs and the windows computers at the outer displays give access to a huge amount of copyrighted applications. How can sth like this be made fully available for a flight simulator without taking a step back from „study level perfection“? Or will „you“ be happy with an A350 that offers A330 functionality? 

[Ross McDonagh]

2 hours ago, Marc Ehnle said:

I‘d love a 330 or 340 too, any subversion. However I can‘t imagine the 350 or 380 in P3D. PFD and ND are no problem, neither are the aircraft systems etc. But the 350/380 flightdecks have become windows offices offering all kind od imformation that is not just a possibility but integrated into the processes and work flows. There is a keyboard on the table, you work more with a touchpad cursor than with knobs and the windows computers at the outer displays give access to a huge amount of copyrighted applications. How can sth like this be made fully available for a flight simulator without taking a step back from „study level perfection“? Or will „you“ be happy with an A350 that offers A330 functionality? 

This is totally a thing.  I’ve seen videos of the 787 in P3D that seems to get the pages/MFD/CDU stuff right but that’s WITHOUT the keyboard in the tray table part.  IIRC XP11 has an A350 but the functionality was limited last time I watched a YT video with it on it.  I PERSONALLY believe that the A330-200/300 could be developed by someone much easier than an A350/A380 could.  Who knows-maybe we’ll get them for MFS 

[Sammy Holmes Jr]

On 5/21/2020 at 4:17 AM, Ross McDonagh said:

This is totally a thing.  I’ve seen videos of the 787 in P3D that seems to get the pages/MFD/CDU stuff right but that’s WITHOUT the keyboard in the tray table part.  IIRC XP11 has an A350 but the functionality was limited last time I watched a YT video with it on it.  I PERSONALLY believe that the A330-200/300 could be developed by someone much easier than an A350/A380 could.  Who knows-maybe we’ll get them for MFS 

I am not sure we can honestly say ANY sim aircraft is close to it's RW counterpart.  While we attempt to get things as close as possible their is truly some guess work involved.  While I work in the scenery side of the sim world and not nearly as much guess work is involved, I know the complex aircraft systems their is just a bit more.  It is hard to simulate and or replicates something that may have copyrights to it, or better yet you just do not have the information on but magically developers still manage to get the products out there as we have done for years. 

The FF model for XP that was spoke of was actually a pretty good rendition of the A350 minus the fact you had to use a third party plugin to use SID/STARS but outside of that it was not bad.  Of course it needed some minor upgrades and tweaks, but let's be realistic what Add-on in any of our sim versions doesn't need a patch or two?  In 20 years of simming and another 20 years in the U.S. Navy I have yet to see a sim plane or RW one that has not needed modifications done to it.  

We will see what we can get, but I doubt that a Dev wanting to gather data to do a sim project would have as hard a time as one may think to get data.  Just look at the current projects the company I work with on the side is doing in the scenery world.  In order for us to do those projects we had to take tours of those facilities, multiple site visits, and get internal data from those locations in order to do those projects.  Once the legal stuff is out of the way it's all about time (for those who know me here I am talking about our NZAA and LFBO projects).  I will not mention our company as I do not want to break any forum rules, although we are in a completely different market since we do scenery and not aircraft.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing what is to come, and if it's another A330 then so be it, I just know my money won't be spent on it.  But I'm sure the rest of you will be happy in that case just as I think you would be if it was an A350.  I believe the majority in here wanting another A330 would spend their money on an A350 as well.

Time will tell my friends!

[Ross McDonagh]

 

 

 

On 5/22/2020 at 3:18 AM, Sammy Holmes Jr said:

I believe the majority in here wanting another A330 would spend their money on an A350 as well.

 

For a quality A350 a-la FSLabs style-you’re absolutely correct (for me at least)
 

[Sabine Meier]

3 minutes ago, Ross McDonagh said:

For a quality A350 a-la FSLabs style-you’re absolutely correct (for me at least)

Some just want an fsl long haul aircraft.

[Ross McDonagh]

4 hours ago, Koen Meier said:

Some just want an fsl long haul aircraft.

I would certainly purchase said long haul aircraft.  Be it an A332, A338, A359..

[Craig Norman]

On 5/24/2020 at 9:44 PM, Ross McDonagh said:

I would certainly purchase said long haul aircraft.  Be it an A332, A338, A359..

Same here. The study level long haul market has long been dominated by PMDG's Boeings, it's about time a study level long haul Airbus was out there. Though the A350 might be too recent, the A330 in my opinion seems more likely, since there's still plenty of them flying around in reality.

[Pascal Wagner]

On 5/14/2020 at 3:14 AM, Sammy Holmes Jr said:

Well, if Flight Factor was able to get the data and create it for XP than I am sure a concentrated effort from a team like FSLabs would not be that difficult to produce.  Surely around the same amount of time to make any of the other aircraft being mentioned.

Same for the NEOs. Asobo was able to program them for MSFS. So why not here. 

[Sabine Meier]

15 hours ago, Pascal Wagner said:

Same for the NEOs. Asobo was able to program them for MSFS. So why not here. 

keep in mind that MSFS also partnered with aircraft manufacturers. so data probably came directly from the manufacturer perhaps.