Full Confidence

[Harry Allen]

Hi there FSLabs Team,

 

Would just like to make known that I still have full confidence in your team and developments for the Flight Sim community. It is unarguably said that you have, and will continue to, produce the best Airbus product(s) for the community, and for that I am truly grateful. Please do not be disheartened by certain things in the media ATM, as a lot of what is being said on various Internet forums are all suppositional and unfounded conspiracy theories.

 

Thanks so much and kind regards.

[Robert Ruprecht]

5 minutes ago, Harry Allen said:

Hi there FSLabs Team,

 

Would just like to make known that I still have full confidence in your team and developments for the Flight Sim community. It is unarguably said that you have, and will continue to, produce the best Airbus product(s) for the community, and for that I am truly grateful. Please do not be disheartened by certain things in the media ATM, as a lot of what is being said on various Internet forums are all suppositional and unfounded conspiracy theories.

 

Thanks so much and kind regards.

You know when you have the market for the best A320 out there, that The Tall Poppy syndrome kicks in. Pay no attention , just do what you do best, that is , producing outstanding quality. Best regards to the team. 

[John Moore]

I think we all do, the product is just too good to be scarred by whatever people on Reddit say or do. We’ll always support you no matter what, I hope you know that!

[Simon Kelsey]

Thanks guys. Your support really does mean a lot to us all, and we truly appreciate the kind words.

We've got some nice, juicy stuff lined up for you over the coming days... stay tuned!

[John Moore]

1 minute ago, Simon Kelsey said:

We've got some nice, juicy stuff lined up for you over the coming days... stay tuned!

Oh man, you know it’s cruel to tease us like this 

[jaffer hussain]

how many companies out there apologize and come clear about their mistakes.. ? not many ! its a hard time for you guys but after hardship is ease !

hang in there boys and do what you do best . And have good intentions !

 

kind regards,

jaffer

[O_l_i_v_e_rM_a_e_r_t_e_n_s]

Learning how FSL have been treating Reddit and FSElite recently (and, with that, our community as well) is quite another blow to my trust in FSL. The Aerosoft Virtual Airbus Cockpit affair, the "mistake" with the test.exe , and now those messages to the teams of Reddit and FSElite?

Folks, that's really a very disappointing and worrying sequence of events ...

[David Porrett]

1 hour ago, O_l_i_v_e_rM_a_e_r_t_e_n_s said:

and now those messages to the teams of Reddit and FSElite?

If FSLabs feel that they have some recourse in those circumstances, then they are entitled to exercise that right. Much ado about not much. I'll continue to support FSLabs.

[Antonis Kastrinakis]

ho hum...here we go again.

Some people need to get a life...or get laid.

I'm waiting for my A330 

[Wayne George]

I just want to say regardless of what is going on, I still have confidence in FSL. I can't wait for the A319. 

[WessYin]

 

I think the FSL management should apologize for the legal threats made and get rid off the stuff in the windows directories. Because every bad press has its radioactive half-life, the storm will subside.

 

[Vimal Anandharaman]

I feel that the legal threats is a big overreaction to the situation. Honestly it has just caused a bigger hate. Its exactly the opposite of what the intended effect was. Like what how can someone press legal charges towards people on reddit? Clearly the law doesnt work that way...

 

Anyways I have to agree that a apology or some kind of statement has to be made with the legal threat issue. 

[David Porrett]

9 minutes ago, Vimal Ana said:

Like what how can someone press legal charges towards people on reddit? Clearly the law doesnt work that way...

Go to PPrune - they made it clear some time ago that posts made on their site can be used in proceedings:

https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/notice-regarding-post-responsibility-anonymity-252.html

[Vimal Anandharaman]

22 minutes ago, David Porrett said:

Go to PPrune - they made it clear some time ago that posts made on their site can be used in proceedings:

https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/notice-regarding-post-responsibility-anonymity-252.html

Cus thats clearly reddit.com right. 

[J_U_A_N__R-A-M-O-S]

I think this time people are waaaaaay over sensitive and its getting tiresome already. As long as the code is  not harmful (and that has been established already) i don't care where they put it. After all we are running the sim as admin anyway. That means that ALL the addons inside P3D are running as admin. It doesn't matter that they are inside or outside of the windows directory.

Some people are complaining about the "name" of the exe. Seriously?? Now that "means" something??   I'm a developer and in one product one of my exes is named F5.exe (yes, for real. It refreshes a file from a server so i named it F5 ).  Does that make it more harmfull? less? does it mean that my code hides a keylogger??

Ah.. btw, newsflash!!! addons install fonts in the c:\windows\fonts directory! 

As i said, its getting tiresome. fslabs has my full support and i will continue getting their products. There's nothing to see here. Just mass hysteria.

[Harry Allen]

1 hour ago, J_U_A_N__R-A-M-O-S said:

I think this time people are waaaaaay over sensitive and its getting tiresome already. As long as the code is  not harmful (and that has been established already) i don't care where they put it. After all we are running the sim as admin anyway. That means that ALL the addons inside P3D are running as admin. It doesn't matter that they are inside or outside of the windows directory.

Some people are complaining about the "name" of the exe. Seriously?? Now that "means" something??   I'm a developer and in one product one of my exes is named F5.exe (yes, for real. It refreshes a file from a server so i named it F5 ).  Does that make it more harmfull? less? does it mean that my code hides a keylogger??

Ah.. btw, newsflash!!! addons install fonts in the c:\windows\fonts directory! 

As i said, its getting tiresome. fslabs has my full support and i will continue getting their products. There's nothing to see here. Just mass hysteria.

Well said. A big fuss over, quite literally, nothing that FSL has done wrong.

Legal threats? That's for them to decide and ultimately justify in their own way; I personally believe that some of the posts on Reddit are truly defamatory and could be relevant in a defamation case, but I'm not a lawyer.

Nonetheless, FSL will continue to have my support and I will continue to purchase their products.

[David Porrett]

9 hours ago, Vimal Ana said:

Cus thats clearly reddit.com right. 

Did you understand what I said?

[Marc Ehnle]

There are some people in this flightsim community that I really can't take serious anymore.. And there are some well known youtubers who seem to have found their new lifework in bashing against companies without really having any background knowledge.. 

Thanks to @J_U_A_N__R-A-M-O-S btw for that sarcastic explanation Made my day xD

 

F5? Here you go

 

 

Go on FSL. =)

[Chris Kreuzbichler]

I think it's also interesting to see that those that bash against FSL aren't verified A320X owners - as far as I've seen

[Nicolas Matus]

Lots of unnecessary bashing in my opinion. I think that the overreaction started way before the messages sent by SK to the Reddit mods. I think that FSL's actions could have been a little more "warm hearted", but a PM is a PM, and revealing a PM with sensitive or private information exposes you to legal action!

But there is something that is clearly misunderstood. If you state something, whether is a forum, social network, reddit, or other, you're exposed to legal actions by anyone. It could be due to insulting, lying, stating falsehood or fake facts, etc...

It is also interesting that lot of people forget that in the past other top-notch developers have threatened to take legal action on different situations, regarding comments, posts, articles, possible EULA violations (even when they were not a violation, yeah, I know a case of a friend many years ago.)

I think that old timers in this hobby like me (since 2005) have seen lot of unnecessary garbage throwing in the last 2-3 years. This community does not deserve that kind of trashing all around and they just need to keep moving forward with constructive arguments, barely seen these days in some folks.

Nevertheless, go on FSL with your projects forward! The recent PR events and posts on Facebook (posting daily) gives an added value to the simmers that support you  

[Niklas Fridell]

I really like the A320X. It's a technical masterpiece.

Heck I even purchased specific Warthog mounts from Monstertech for 200 Euro just for this plane. But I can not support how FSL is conducting communication anymore. Demanding that FS-Elite should pass along personal information about their registered users, because of some comments they made about the A320X / FSL? Here is the deal: FSL has not the authority to act as a prosecutor and judge. 

Court will decide if personal information would be shared. And the newly GDPR will make your chance of this happening basically slim to none, IMHO.
And I won't bother commenting on the cmdhost events. That is not the big issue for me. The issue for me is how big of a PR-farce this has become.

Now these are my personal feelings. I respect that others might have a totally different take, but I am not set on a mission to change peoples' views over this

[NilsUnger]

39 minutes ago, Niklas Fridell said:

Demanding that FS-Elite should pass along personal information about their registered users, because of some comments they made about the A320X / FSL? Here is the deal: FSL has not the authority to act as a prosecutor and judge.

Yeah, that's my biggest concern, as well. Lesson not learned, it seems.

I would like to see them spend their energy otherwise, actually I expect it. They must feel that what they are doing is a good way to protect their work or reputation. In my opinion, it is a good way to self destruction and I don't want that to happen. 

[kevinfirth]

19 hours ago, J_U_A_N__R-A-M-O-S said:

After all we are running the sim as admin anyway.

Why?  And I don't wish anyone to say 'because FSL says so'...I'd like to hear a technical explanation of why it's actually necessary in respect of this product please?

I'd like to buy FSL products, really, I have no question in my mind they are top notch simulations, but from what I've read the situation appears to be that:

a) esellerate doesn't require this file to be in this location?

b) esellerate doesn't require the use of this filename?

c) why running the sim as admin is really necessary?  I don't want to do that - tell me if I'm wrong and why, but doesn't running as admin allows code within the sim to technically access the whole OS, which in itself is a security risk, providing a potential attack vector?

d) the 'communication' on behalf of FSL is absolutely dire and appalling - BIG apols necessary for the cack-handed way in which this has been dealt with PR wise :(

I've not seen any FSL led comms explaining why this file is named as it is or why its in the system folders.  If there is one could someone provide a link please?  In the absence of understanding this I struggle to generate the confidence in FSL's practices required to click 'buy'.

FSL, you've put up barriers by your own actions to deter a prospective customer...how do you reassure me please?  Some people are going to love you regardless, some people are going to hate you regardless, but there is a 3rd set of people who need to be reassured and given transparent information, and we don't seem to be getting it....

[Nicolas Matus]

3 hours ago, kevinfirth said:

Why?  And I don't wish anyone to say 'because FSL says so'...I'd like to hear a technical explanation of why it's actually necessary in respect of this product please? .....

....  c) why running the sim as admin is really necessary?  I don't want to do that - tell me if I'm wrong and why, but doesn't running as admin allows code within the sim to technically access the whole OS, which in itself is a security risk, providing a potential attack vector?

Because Lockheed Martin requires it to lift administrator rights and permission incompatibilities on the computer. This fixes many issues including scenery and aircraft registration.  See this link:

https://www.prepar3d.com/frequently-asked-questions/

I guess I don't know any devs that do not require the sim to run "as administrator" to get the addons working properly or flawlessly... (YEAH, I MIGHT BE INCORRECT, I'm human, not an android like Lt Cmdr Data  ). PMDG recommends it, Aerosoft recommends it, hell even LM recommends it! LOL.

It seems that questions a) and b) should be answered by someone from the FSL Team... I've seen other uses of the Windows folder while installing other addons (like fonts!!!!)

Cheers  

[J_U_A_N__R-A-M-O-S]

5 hours ago, kevinfirth said:

c) why running the sim as admin is really necessary?  I don't want to do that - tell me if I'm wrong and why, but doesn't running as admin allows code within the sim to technically access the whole OS, which in itself is a security risk, providing a potential attack vector?

See lockheed answer here

https://www.prepar3d.com/frequently-asked-questions/

Why is Prepar3D closing when I try to open the Scenery Library, save a flight, load a flight, etc?

Hard crashes of Prepar3D are typically associated with administrator rights and permission incompatibilities on the computer. Navigating to Prepar3D’s install directory, right clicking on Prepar3D.exe, and selected ‘run as administrator’ will allow Prepar3D to access and write in the locations required.

 

Quote

b) esellerate doesn't require the use of this filename?

Why the file name has any relevance at all? Inside the p3d folder, there's a file named "debug.dll" .... Why is named debug? why not "troubleshoot"? what is it debugging? 

See where im going? The file name has no relevance at all, the code inside do. If the file is innocuous it doesnt matter if its called "StealUsersMoney.dll" . A file name doesnt mean anything by itself.

[J0hannes Butz]

I'm totally with you Juan, I think that the current situation is just the answer to the behavior Simon had towards other sources. I know the internet can be very strange and seemingly attacking but the only solution in those situations is to stay calm and explain in all honesty what's going on.

When there's something seemingly questionable going on and the immediate reaction is something like there was on Reddit/FSElite, this will not portrait any trustworthiness. Especially to those that have no knowledge what's going on (sadly those people are also who scream the loudest) this is rather unsettling, especially when there was already an affair with malware in the same product.

I truly believe the guys behind FSL to have the best intent (hence me continuing supporting you), but then please calm your horses when somebody tries attacking you and don't overreact like this, it won't help your situation nor the community. Instead please give everybody as transparent as possible information, that's the best thing you can do to defend yourself from people that are just seeking for ammo to fire at you. And/or maybe first have a full team conversation before going to the press, that'll surely help you find the right words before causing any conspiracy theories.

[Christopher Bull]

Dear FSL Guys,

                             Love you lots, and keep up the good work. 

 

Now, where is my Concorde X for P3dv4? Pretty Please? 

 

 

 

Bully.

[John Moore]

20 minutes ago, Christopher Bull said:

Now, where is my Concorde X for P3dv4? Pretty Please? 

 

It’s coming, last Andy said was a 2018 release back in November!!

 

[Christopher Bull]

2018    

Well thats made my year so far  

Wonder how much this will cost in Air Hauler 2. Quite a bit I imagine

 

 

 

[O_l_i_v_e_rM_a_e_r_t_e_n_s]

Could we pls. get a statement from FSL concerning the discrepancy between a cmdhost.exe file being presented as communicating between the eSellerate server and your product activation interface, and the very same file in fact just starting a process, only to freeze it immediately afterwards, allowing so-called 'process hollowing' at that point?

[kevinfirth]

17 hours ago, O_l_i_v_e_rM_a_e_r_t_e_n_s said:

Could we pls. get a statement from FSL concerning the discrepancy between a cmdhost.exe file being presented as communicating between the eSellerate server and your product activation interface, and the very same file in fact just starting a process, only to freeze it immediately afterwards, allowing so-called 'process hollowing' at that point?

What's the source for that info please?  Is it even true? :s

NM here it is: 

It appears that this has been addressed by Lefteris already.  Tthough the fact that it took from February to April (2 full months!) to do so is pretty poor IMHO....

So, the file itself is confirmed not a threat....

I really would like someone to explain what the intent was behind the naming and placement of it though please?  If it was simply to try to cloak a part of the DRM system by placing it where it probably shouldn't be I could understand that.  If so, the motive is shot now because everyone knows about it so there shouldn't be a problem in admitting to such a motive.  If there was another completely different reason for the file name and placement, what the hell was it please FSL?

[O_l_i_v_e_rM_a_e_r_t_e_n_s]

Kevin,

 

communication between eSellerate and FSL product activation:

https://forums.flightsimlabs.com/index.php?/topic/17444-flight-sim-labs-statement-on-cmdhost/&tab=comments#comment-131363

Process hollowing via cmdhost.exe:

https://forums.flightsimlabs.com/index.php?/topic/16306-p3dv4-problems-with-installing-the-latest-spotlight-version-cmdhostexe/&do=findComment&comment=131454

 

It's interesting to note that I, as a FSX user, do not have a cmdhost.exe installed anywhere. Simon Kelsey stated, though, that "It was designed to reduce the number of product activation issues people were having after the FSX release - which have since been resolved."

As far as I'm aware the cmdhost file has only shown up for P3D users and only just after the test.exe had been removed from FSL's installer for P3D.

https://forums.flightsimlabs.com/index.php?/topic/16210-malware-in-installer/&do=findComment&comment=123613

 

What's also important to know is that the opportunity to conduct process hollowing via cmdhost.exe is not limited to FSL's code: Any installed software designed to take advantage of the cmdhost.exe can exploit the opportunity created by FSL. It's like FSL, unbeknown to me, has opened the back door of my house. I may not be aware of that myself, but sinister characters could find out and come in ...

 

[Johannes Beck]

I've always been taught to keep a differentiated view even on the most controversial discussions. So just let me leave the main discussion behind for a moment and let me tell you something I noted besides the latest events.

I really enjoyed the last weeks loaded with tons of previews of the A319! This kind of communication is definitely a big improvement in FSLabs' customer relations and should not be ignored in any way.

I understand that @Simon Kelsey is responsible for this "campaign". If I'm right, I'd like to say: Thank you Simon, well done! A very nice and entertaining way to keep us up to date. 

 

I'm sorry for not jumping onto the troll train. The discussion may now continue.

[John Moore]

32 minutes ago, Johannes Beck said:

I really enjoyed the last weeks loaded with tons of previews of the A319! This kind of communication is definitely a big improvement in FSLabs' customer relations and should not be ignored in any way.

As did I! They really make the A319 look amazing, and it’s nice to see the fruits of the beta teams labor!

[kevinfirth]

2 hours ago, Johannes Beck said:

I've always been taught to keep a differentiated view even on the most controversial discussions. So just let me leave the main discussion behind for a moment and let me tell you something I noted besides the latest events.

I really enjoyed the last weeks loaded with tons of previews of the A319! This kind of communication is definitely a big improvement in FSLabs' customer relations and should not be ignored in any way.

I understand that @Simon Kelsey is responsible for this "campaign". If I'm right, I'd like to say: Thank you Simon, well done! A very nice and entertaining way to keep us up to date. 

 

I'm sorry for not jumping onto the troll train. The discussion may now continue.

Great features, cant deny that.

But it kind of feels like sleight of hand, "oh look, here's something shiny to distract you from something brown and smelly over there..."

Is that the same Simon Kelsey a la legal threats?  I totally agree that previews are a much better use of his time

Still want to buy it, still don't feel the trust or love enough to make that step yet though...….

 

[Dan Parkin]

18 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

Still want to buy it, still don't feel the trust or love enough to make that step yet though...….

I am one of the beta testers but I was a customer first. Without being technical enough to understand the exact processes, nothing bad has ever happened to my (non-anti virus protected) PC 

There comes a point when we have to trust any company that we use; I'm sure there are many, many people out there sending information to Microsoft without knowing it. I'm relatively new to the team and while I know some of them personally my experience of the wider FSL team is that they're a group of simmers just like us, they just happen to produce superb software.

[Michael Avallone]

I have been quite busy with working, flying and sometimes getting laid  can somebody please bring me up to speed? Are we on OMFG OUTRAGE !!!!!!!! v3 now or is is V4?  

Seriously... I come in here and people are about frigging attack vectors lol.... really? 

 

 

 

 

[David Porrett]

On 6/7/2018 at 8:15 AM, Dan Parkin said:

nothing bad has ever happened to my (non-anti virus protected) PC 

Me too. There was too much paranoia and confected outrage about this whole situation.

[Mike Iacovetta]

Thank you FSL for making the most detailed and accurate desktop simulation to date.  You guys are seriously awesome, the only issue is I find it hard to enjoy other addons now because of all the little things they get wrong that you got right.

[Craig Read]

Is there any reason to keep cmdhost.exe in the system directory once registration and serial checks have been completed?

 

[John Moore]

2 minutes ago, Craig Read said:

Is there any reason to keep cmdhost.exe in the system directory once registration and serial checks have been completed?

 

If I remember correctly, their activation will run each time you select the plane.  Now I could be wrong about this, but this what I’ve heard. Placing the file there was mainly intended to solve activation issues that were caused by it sometimes being shut down by Windows. If you are willing to accept the increased risks for issues, then I don’t see how it could hurt, though it very well could based on the program looking in that directory for a file that isn’t there. 

I don’t have the most extensive knowledge on this, so maybe someone with Loren knowledge could advise you further and fact check me?

[Craig Read]

Testing it now, removing cmdhost.exe from the windows directories along with the two generated log files.. P3D v4 fails to start.. essentially it starts to load.. splash screen shown.. then stops.. splash screen disappearing.. the P3D process however is still running in the background.. and requires Task Manager to close it down.. replacing the files in the directory makes it start as normal.  Clearly something is calling this process on every start, if it fails to find it the sim fails to start properly.

 

[John Moore]

24 minutes ago, Craig Read said:

Clearly something is calling this process on every start, if it fails to find it the sim fails to start properly.

 

That’s what I was kinda afraid of, good to know though for future reference.

[Ray Proudfoot]

Craig,

Is an FSL aircraft saved in your default startup? If so change it to a default. P3D should load. You could rename Prepar3D.cfg temporarily to force it to start with a default aircraft.

If it doesn’t then check EXE.XML for entries pointing to that windows file. If one exists you should be able to comment it out and P3D should start with a default aircraft.

No way should you not be able to run P3D with a default aircraft.

[Markus Burkhard]

Craig, don't remove these files, they are needed to run the add-on. Don't worry, they don't do any harm by being there. They're just files needed for the eSellerate infrastructure.