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Did FSLABS miss the MSFS train with the upcoming FENIX A320 ?


Camille MOUCHEL

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Camille MOUCHEL

what's your opinion ?

 

my guess is that fslabs have been working on the MSFS version since the dawn of time !

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valson bezerril

I saw some pictures from  fenix A320  is very impressive   but still in alpha  , lots of work has to be done before release  i believe end of the year  to be released,  till there will have PMDG 737 and maybe  FLS LABS  announcement 

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Stu Antonio

I really hope they do. I always thought IF I finally switch to MSFS one day, FSLabs will be the reason. Not so sure anymore, but I still keep my hopes up. At some point, FSL will have to tell us what they plan to do... 

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valson bezerril

They will for sure because what's the point staying in P3D having an A320 study level on MSFS it will be a natural move to all simmers , FSL LABS will face a serious competitor on the markets it will force them to get some action. Clients get the benefits of this.

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Jordan Collins
1 hour ago, Camille MOUCHEL said:

what's your opinion ?

 

my guess is that fslabs have been working on the MSFS version since the dawn of time !

I owe you $50.

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Camille MOUCHEL
27 minutes ago, valson bezerril said:

They will for sure because what's the point staying in P3D having an A320 study level on MSFS it will be a natural move to all simmers , FSL LABS will face a serious competitor on the markets it will force them to get some action. Clients get the benefits of this.

yes more competitors means more choice for us customer :)

1 hour ago, Jordan Collins said:

I’ll bet $50 this thread gets deleted in the next 30 minutes. 

 

the link got removed ?

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Robert Schumacher

Personally, with this news today, I feel like FSL will miss out on bringing their bread/butter product line in MSFS (A320).  Before, there was some ambiguity about MSFS being a viable platform.  Now, however, it is clear as day - MSFS is THE future of flight simulation, and it is ready for prime time.  I feel like FSL should do with their Concorde what JustFlight chose to do with their F28 and immediately halt development for P3D, and focus on bringing the Concorde to MSFS, and/or considering an A330/A340 for the new platform.  The P3D ship was already sinking, but now it has split in half.  It’s going down fast.  Hopefully, it’s not too late.  
 

As much as I love the Concorde, I am not willing to keep P3D installed for it.  Bring it to MSFS and I will purchase.

 

I think it is time for FSLabs to put out a statement, making their intentions of MSFS clear.

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Michele Benedetti

I simply think...that apparently no one wants to do a wide body Airbus despite it being probably the most awaited type of add-on in flight sim...very sad :( Another A320...at least FSL are refreshing the line up with Concorde :)

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Camille MOUCHEL
30 minutes ago, Robert Schumacher said:

Personally, with this news today, I feel like FSL will miss out on bringing their bread/butter product line in MSFS (A320).  Before, there was some ambiguity about MSFS being a viable platform.  Now, however, it is clear as day - MSFS is THE future of flight simulation, and it is ready for prime time.  I feel like FSL should do with their Concorde what JustFlight chose to do with their F28 and immediately halt development for P3D, and focus on bringing the Concorde to MSFS, and/or considering an A330/A340 for the new platform.  The P3D ship was already sinking, but now it has split in half.  It’s going down fast.  Hopefully, it’s not too late.  
 

As much as I love the Concorde, I am not willing to keep P3D installed for it.  Bring it to MSFS and I will purchase.

 

I think it is time for FSLabs to put out a statement, making their intentions of MSFS clear.

they still have the A320 family to finish, A3XX being developped as we speak and the concorde V2 for P3D, no way and i hope that they won't stop p3D developments

 

FSLABS are very smart, i'm sure they have already begun deverlopping their A320 for MSFS in the background, they are just quiet about it just like FENIX. FEBIX only relealmed today publically about their A320 for msfs

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Robert Sutherland
1 hour ago, Camille MOUCHEL said:

Why can't I post the Blog of the FENIX studio ?

Not sure its smart to post a link to what is ultimately a competitor product? :)

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Mikey Miller

I'm very excited to see the competition in the between Airbus dev's on this new sim I just hope the market is big enough for both of them!

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Camille MOUCHEL
7 minutes ago, Robert Sutherland said:

Not sure its smart to post a link to what is ultimately a competitor product? :)

 

First FSLABS haven't confirmed that they will ever developped a product for MSFS ie so far they are only developping for FSX/P3DV4/V5 platform so i can't see FENIX as a competitor.

 

8 minutes ago, Mikey Miller said:

I'm very excited to see the competition in the between Airbus dev's on this new sim I just hope the market is big enough for both of them!

they devs are from Airbus ?

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Mikey Miller
2 minutes ago, Camille MOUCHEL said:

they devs are from Airbus ?

No, sorry I was imprecise with my writing, I was simply referring to developers within the flightsim third party market who mainly focus on Airbus models!

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Camille MOUCHEL

so what I'm understanding here is that almost everything has been modelled so far except some FMGC feature such as the Step Climb/RTA/Offset... but will be added later on ?

 

How is it possible to implement all tjhat with the current MSFS SDKFailureList-v0.2.pdf

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David Norfolk

I feel like if they were gonna do it, they would of said by now. I hope I'm wrong but I honestly can't see it happening. If this A320 says what they say it is then is there much point in having FSLs A320 in MSFS? 

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Lefteris Kalamaras

Gents-

we have always encouraged healthy discussion about our products and anything that concerns them, even bringing up points from other products in comparison. We will always maintain that openness.

We have, however, always asked that if people want to find more direct information about other products, they visit their web sites instead - posting entire pages here is not really recommended or necessary, if you need that, then Google's your friend!

Thanks for respecting this and allowing us to maintain this openness!

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Chris Howard
7 minutes ago, David Norfolk said:

I feel like if they were gonna do it, they would of said by now. I hope I'm wrong but I honestly can't see it happening. If this A320 says what they say it is then is there much point in having FSLs A320 in MSFS? 

Yes :rolleyes:

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Robert Schumacher
4 minutes ago, David Norfolk said:

I feel like if they were gonna do it, they would of said by now. I hope I'm wrong but I honestly can't see it happening. If this A320 says what they say it is then is there much point in having FSLs A320 in MSFS? 

No, there would not be.  Which is why I fear they’ve missed the boat.  The Concorde is still salvageable if they were to announce it for MSFS.  So would any potential widebodied Airbus aircraft.  But, let’s face it, people are jumping off the P3D boat in hordes.  This may well be the last nail in the coffin of P3D (at least for the home simmer market).

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Peter Hastings
1 minute ago, Camille MOUCHEL said:

How is it possible to implement all tjhat with the current MSFS SDK

I don't think that's question that can be answered here - is there an MSFS forum?  Or contact Fenix?  And FSLabs have always seemed clear that comments (both for and against) other aircraft developers aren't particularly welcome on what is a forum about FSLabs products.

And why should they say whether they are looking at an MSFS version or not?  The A320-X software architecture model is different to other aircraft add-ons in P3D and FSX, so I can't see it being a trivial port across to MSFS.  Think about the sharklet hype thread and multiply it by 10 if they even whispered that they were thinking of MSFS!

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Mikey Miller

It's definitely a bittersweet moment because I do really like the Fslabs Ecosystem and would love for it to be on MSFS, however this Dev does seem to bringing a serious product to the market.

I do have a feeling for most of us it's going to be a case of whoever is first to market will be the studio we stick with for Airbus products on the new sim, but that is just speculation! 

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Camille MOUCHEL
Gents-
we have always encouraged healthy discussion about our products and anything that concerns them, even bringing up points from other products in comparison. We will always maintain that openness.
We have, however, always asked that if people want to find more direct information about other products, they visit their web sites instead - posting entire pages here is not really recommended or necessary, if you need that, then Google's your friend!
Thanks for respecting this and allowing us to maintain this openness!

Sorry for any inconvenience.

I haven’t criticized FSLaBs by any means with this topic. Thé goal was just inform the fslabs community


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David Norfolk
20 minutes ago, Robert Schumacher said:

No, there would not be.  Which is why I fear they’ve missed the boat.  The Concorde is still salvageable if they were to announce it for MSFS.  So would any potential widebodied Airbus aircraft.  But, let’s face it, people are jumping off the P3D boat in hordes.  This may well be the last nail in the coffin of P3D (at least for the home simmer market).

I never thought i'd say it but i have to agree. For me MSFS is growing nicely & with this pretty much came my departure from P3D. My experience on MSFS is alot more positive than it was in P3D. 

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David Porrett
1 hour ago, Michele Benedetti said:

Another A320

Agree - no matter the platform, more 320's and that goes for 737's as well. Let's have something different.

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Tom van der Elst
26 minutes ago, David Norfolk said:

I never thought i'd say it but i have to agree. For me MSFS is growing nicely & with this pretty much came my departure from P3D. My experience on MSFS is alot more positive than it was in P3D. 

Then again, my experience with P3D is a lot more positive then it was in FSX.

It's natural that this simming thing evolves, somebody thinks of something, someone else simplifies it, yet another dude adds to it, etc,

and I think in time we could see very nice products in MSFS, but I do wonder how far this simulating planes will -but mostly should- go.

The one thing I like most about my sim is the fact I can load up the Airbus cold en dark and then can tell anyone visiting that calls it

"a game and how hard can it be to start a computer generated plane hah hah hah" ; "well, start it up and taxi it to the runway, how hard can it be?".

But, having planes this complicated means your customer base will be limited, because not everyone thinks it is a hobby to plan and execute a flight

exactly how you would do it in the real world.

I think this might be a challenging time for Sim and simcontentcreators alike.

 

 

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Camille MOUCHEL

Any way, P3D mlay be dead if PMDG is able to deliver their 737NG 3 for Q4 2021 and that FENIX ( currently in technical alpha) release their product in Q4 2021 or Q1-2022).

 

As far i'm concerned, if their 737NG 3 is as good as their P3D version, i'll swithc to MSFS and start investing in it so I'll be ready when a study level A320 come out either FENIX or FSLABS.

 

Hopefully the A310 from Ini will come up in this month so i'll be able to fly ir extensively before i switch to MSFS

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Tom van der Elst
6 minutes ago, Camille MOUCHEL said:

Any way, P3D mlay be dead if PMDG is able to deliver their 737NG 3 for Q4 2021 and that FENIX ( currently in technical alpha) release their product in Q4 2021 or Q1-2022).

 

As far i'm concerned, if their 737NG 3 is as good as their P3D version, i'll swithc to MSFS and start investing in it so I'll be ready when a study level A320 come out either FENIX or FSLABS

I don't know if I can ever touch a Boeing again -he spoke dramatically- but if I can it will have to

have at least the goodies and architecture this here Airbii group has.

It's not just that this is a brilliant simulation, it is also -in my humble opinion-

brilliantly thought out in terms of ergonomics and features.

That will be hard to emulate or top by someone else.

This is ofcourse me speaking for me, not for you lot.

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Anatoly Briskin

Until the names like PMDG, Toliss, FS Labs, Inibuilds Aerobask TFDI, Majestic appear in MSFS market place I treat all FS2020 hype and speculation with "believe it when I see it " attitude.  There was way too much of hype and speculation going around FS for the past year with no tangible results.  Heavily modified GA planes are pretty flyable now but still no where near their payware quality counterparts and complex airliners are still nowhere to be found in that sandbox.   

Don't get me wrong I am rooting for FS2020 I hate P3D platform with passion but so far progress in FS has been slow and the focus of the developers seems to be not on the semi-serious simming community. 

 

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Camille MOUCHEL
Yes :rolleyes:

Yea more competition means that the price will have to be lower in order to be competitive so better for us consumer


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Atul Mishra

All I'd say is that I've got my faith with FSLabs. They did what others couldn't, made hundreds of thousands of simmer's dream come true when there were limitations with technology. If they could do such with those limited technologies back in the time, I can't imagine what they will with the new one. Always there for FSLabs no matter what.

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Sam de Freyssinet

A few thoughts on some of the points raised here.

I am sure the FSL team are closely monitoring progress of MSFS as a platform and re-evaluating their plans as needed. Also of note was a comment from the Fenix developers that their A320 models all systems external to the sim engine, in the same way as Majestic and indeed the FSL fleet do. So, without knowing the specifics of how FSL have managed their external libraries within P3D, the FSL existing systems library is “theoretically” portable to another sim. I work in software, so I also know that what is theoretically possible and actual effort are rarely straightforward. But I would take this as a signal that there is likely a path for FSL not to have to completely start again, assuming some very broad assumptions about how the FSL Airbus system code is adapted to a specific sim.

The other thought is around MSFS adoption. I have the big three sims, and P3D and XP are still my gotos. Talking to other established simmers there is a similar sentiment. MSFS is beautiful, but currently has some drawbacks that take away from the experience more advanced simmers are seeking. One very clear omission in MSFS is the full range of weather depictions, especially low vis and being able to configure the full range of conditions. Add to that the extra level of detail provided by ActiveSky (weather radar) and all higher spec’d addons will lack features from the legacy platforms until resolved. Secondly there is online flying experience. At the moment the fidelity of the online experience in Vatsim, Pilot Edge or other networks outside of MSFS group flight is just not where it is in P3D and XP. Add to this lack of high fidelity modern tube liners, and the missing features start to stack up. For some, none of this will matter, but for me it keeps me from using MSFS regularly. I know this will change, progress is inevitable. But right now these issues keep some of the more invested simmers firmly on the last generation of platforms.

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Pascal Wagner

So the new phrase for top notch aircraft is as of now hifi aircraft. Ok i m fine with that. 

Btw. With all due respect it's a bit unfair to start those kind of discussion inside the forum of Fslabs. They still provide the most advanced airliner for flightsims. Give them a chance to publish a statement. And we have time. No rush. MSFS is still brand new. P3D will be further developed either. So no panic at all. 

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Eric Fisher
6 hours ago, Robert Schumacher said:

 But, let’s face it, people are jumping off the P3D boat in hordes.  This may well be the last nail in the coffin of P3D (at least for the home simmer market).

Not wanting to give up flying the FSL bus has kept me around but this announcement today coupled with the glacial progress from LM and the continued tired engine it's based on has myself grabbing the suitcase from the attic and preparing for a likely move later this year. I really see no reason to be on P3D by no later than the end of 2021.

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Sam de Freyssinet
7 minutes ago, Pascal Wagner said:

So the new phrase for top notch aircraft is as of now hifi aircraft. Ok i m fine with that.

Well, I chose high fidelity carefully in place of the much abused study level moniker.

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Eric Fisher
1 hour ago, Sam de Freyssinet said:

One very clear omission in MSFS is the full range of weather depictions, especially low vis and being able to configure the full range of conditions. Add to that the extra level of detail provided by ActiveSky (weather radar) and all higher spec’d addons will lack features from the legacy platforms until resolved. But right now these issues keep some of the more invested simmers firmly on the last generation of platforms.

Asobo has apparently acknowledged the live weather issue and they say by SU7 (Sim Update 5 releases 7/27) later this year the live weather will be something that far surpasses anything we currently have. If so and this A320 lives up to the hype, I'm done with P3D. 

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Jeremy Smirnov

I am new to P3D - only January of this year (since coming from MSFS in its early stages and not wanting to wait for nice aircraft)... I own everything FSLabs, PMDG, A2A, MilViz, etc... The ONLY reason I was keeping P3D around is FSLabs and PMDG. And now it seems those reasons are evaporating quickly which is a testament to how far along MSFS market has come thus far. JustFlight, Aerosoft, and MilViz all announced there will be no new P3D development. PMDG is all-in on MSFS too with 737 to come around the end of summer. This is starting to look like FSLabs (love you guys) have waited a little too long. P3D is UNFORTUNATELY a sinking ship. Those that continue to deny it will find themselves with nothing new to fly soon. I love P3D and I had a great 6 months run with it. (And yes, several thousand dollars worth)... but it's time to close down that shop. Unless LM has a groundbreaking new tech announcement at this years FlightSimExpo, P3D is as good as dead for the home market. There is very little point to deny that MSFS has grabbed the flag and ran with it - I am afraid a little too far already for P3D to catch up. I hope not to lose FSLabs' excellent products in this new era. The Sharklets was my last purchase for P3D. At this point, the Concorde is gonna have to wait until it comes to MSFS. 

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Anatoly Briskin
1 hour ago, Jeremy Smirnov said:

I am new to P3D - only January of this year (since coming from MSFS in its early stages and not wanting to wait for nice aircraft)... I own everything FSLabs, PMDG, A2A, MilViz, etc... The ONLY reason I was keeping P3D around is FSLabs and PMDG. And now it seems those reasons are evaporating quickly which is a testament to how far along MSFS market has come thus far. JustFlight, Aerosoft, and MilViz all announced there will be no new P3D development. PMDG is all-in on MSFS too with 737 to come around the end of summer. This is starting to look like FSLabs (love you guys) have waited a little too long. P3D is UNFORTUNATELY a sinking ship. Those that continue to deny it will find themselves with nothing new to fly soon. I love P3D and I had a great 6 months run with it. (And yes, several thousand dollars worth)... but it's time to close down that shop. Unless LM has a groundbreaking new tech announcement at this years FlightSimExpo, P3D is as good as dead for the home market. There is very little point to deny that MSFS has grabbed the flag and ran with it - I am afraid a little too far already for P3D to catch up. I hope not to lose FSLabs' excellent products in this new era. The Sharklets was my last purchase for P3D. At this point, the Concorde is gonna have to wait until it comes to MSFS. 

I'm XP fan thru and thru came to P3D because our Boeings totally not up to the par.  Got into FS Labs for contrast and compare to very nice Buses we have in XP.  Fly FSL buses  when I want some RPG with ATSU and totally awesome ground handling integration, fly PMDG T7 and QOS quite often spend about 70 percent of my time in XP 25 in P3D and 5 in FS, primarily for some lazy GA VFR flights. Still think their GA planes not  up to the par compared to stuff in XP  But then again those GA planes are heavily modified Working Title aircraft, not default ASOBO. It's being almost a year since release date and still no firm dates by big, established names as to when their complex aircraft is going to be in the sim.  PMDG is being quite lately, guessing they are testing NG3 now we'll see how that goes.  DC-6 is ok but it's not a modern aircraft Aerosoft CRJ is junk The rest of the payware offerings is pretty much money grab by the devs.  My take on that super duper Hi Fidelity A320 is that ti's going to be another alpha-beta release that will take 5 years if ever to become anything that approaches FSL on P3D side or Toliss on XP side. And meanwhile on XP side.  inibuilds is coming out out with A310 Toliss is putting final touches on A340 and Aerobask is moving along nicely on falcon 8x. Meaning that FS is not going to gain much of a support from semi-serious simming community for at least another 18 months. 

 

+

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Aleksandr Strybko

I agree on the above. A320 is a very VERY complex airframe (it’s not even an aircraft since it has so many big and small differences across the fleet) and I highly doubt that somebody without an experience can make high-fidelity model of it in half a year (considering that all previous year an SDK was trash). MSFS crowd could be hyped right now, but I’m gonna stick with butter smooth P3Dv5.2 right now.

Also even if Fenix guys are brilliant developers and they will deliver brilliant A320 to our hands, there still issues with MSFS itself - constant updates that break everything, stupid interface, all that stuff. 
 

Although it could be interesting to see if FSL will add some features to compete with this hype bomb…

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Camille MOUCHEL
I agree on the above. A320 is a very VERY complex airframe (it’s not even an aircraft since it has so many big and small differences across the fleet) and I highly doubt that somebody without an experience can make high-fidelity model of it in half a year (considering that all previous year an SDK was trash). MSFS crowd could be hyped right now, but I’m gonna stick with butter smooth P3Dv5.2 right now.
Also even if Fenix guys are brilliant developers and they will deliver brilliant A320 to our hands, there still issues with MSFS itself - constant updates that break everything, stupid interface, all that stuff. 
 
Although it could be interesting to see if FSL will add some features to compete with this hype bomb…

From what I Jnow, the fenix 320 flight model,system… runs outside msfs and then being re inject inside.

It won’t be release before how many months do they have time to implement thing with updated SDK I guess.

But in the mean time we have the fslabs and the futur A310 :)


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Camille MOUCHEL
I agree on the above. A320 is a very VERY complex airframe (it’s not even an aircraft since it has so many big and small differences across the fleet) and I highly doubt that somebody without an experience can make high-fidelity model of it in half a year (considering that all previous year an SDK was trash). MSFS crowd could be hyped right now, but I’m gonna stick with butter smooth P3Dv5.2 right now.
Also even if Fenix guys are brilliant developers and they will deliver brilliant A320 to our hands, there still issues with MSFS itself - constant updates that break everything, stupid interface, all that stuff. 
 
Although it could be interesting to see if FSL will add some features to compete with this hype bomb…

They need already to fix the basic FMGS feature and Nd symbology and add features that are planned after release by fenix : ETP/RTA/Offset/Step Climb… and maybe Accurate ANo calculation based on the current position of the GPS satellite making even more immersive for RNP approach where you’ll have to make sur that you have enough GPS coverage and that the RNP

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Holger Teutsch

As an already seasoned simmer I've seen numerous A320 projects starting with ambitious videos and feature lists that either never made it to release or stalled and never delivered to their promises. (Latest example: one of the offerings on X-Plane). Guess why a ended with FSLabs?

I wish the guys of Fenix all the best but it's not yet the time to hyperventilate.

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