High-end Sidestick

[Andrej Ropret]

Dear Gentlemen,

which of the high-end sidesticks would you recommend? I fly the A320/321 as Captain and therefore would like to have a natural feel back at home as well.

I would not like to buy twice as if PROSRV 2.0 will not feel right, then 1000 eur is wasted and will have to buy 3.0 anyhow.

 

I keep an eye on:

1. ACC PROSRV 3.0

https://www.acc.world/store/p2/Sidestick_320_PROSRV3.0.html
 

2. FSC.it

FSC sidestick

 

3. genuine OEM sidestick CAPT

https://sim-on-a320.com/blog/tag/sidestick/

as found on Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/A320-A330-Controller-Assembly-Side-Stick-PN-321000-M03-MFR-F0222/324179913596?hash=item4b7aa0eb7c:g:fGYAAOSwKJpezqop

 

4. ACC PROSRV 2.0

https://www.acc.world/store/p1/Sidestick_320_PROSRV2.0_.html

 

5. FlightDeckSolutions

https://flightdeck-solutions.myshopify.com/collections/a320/products/a320-pro-mx-series-sidestick

6. Skalarki

https://www.skalarki-electronics.eu/onlineshop/product/240-side-stick-p-p.html

[Robert Stephan]

Maybe this one:

http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_US/products/tca-officer-pack-airbus-edition

[Michael Ackermann]

I'm using the ACC 2.0, but I'm not a RW pilot, so I can't comment regarding the authenticity. Compared to the sidestick in a Lufthansa FFS it feels a bit stiff. 

By the way, the Skalarki sidestick is an ACC 2.0 as well.

[David Norfolk]

if it were me, i'd go for the Skalarki one. there products work with the labs  

[Andrej Ropret]

On 6/24/2020 at 5:19 PM, Michael Ackermann said:

I'm using the ACC 2.0, but I'm not a RW pilot, so I can't comment regarding the authenticity. Compared to the sidestick in a Lufthansa FFS it feels a bit stiff. 

By the way, the Skalarki sidestick is an ACC 2.0 as well.

Thank you for clarifying which one Skalarki sells.

Yes I also heard the ACC 2.0 is a bit stiffer then A320 original and feels like a bit different.

[Jack van Braam]

On 6/23/2020 at 7:21 PM, Andrej Ropret said:

Dear Gentlemen,

which of the high-end sidesticks would you recommend? I fly the A320/321 as Captain and therefore would like to have a natural feel back at home as well.

I would not like to buy twice as if PROSRV 2.0 will not feel right, then 1000 eur is wasted and will have to buy 3.0 anyhow.

 

I keep an eye on:

1. ACC PROSRV 3.0

https://www.acc.world/store/p2/Sidestick_320_PROSRV3.0.html
 

2. FSC.it

FSC sidestick

 

3. genuine OEM sidestick CAPT

https://sim-on-a320.com/blog/tag/sidestick/

as found on Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/A320-A330-Controller-Assembly-Side-Stick-PN-321000-M03-MFR-F0222/324179913596?hash=item4b7aa0eb7c:g:fGYAAOSwKJpezqop

 

4. ACC PROSRV 2.0

https://www.acc.world/store/p1/Sidestick_320_PROSRV2.0_.html

 

5. FlightDeckSolutions

https://flightdeck-solutions.myshopify.com/collections/a320/products/a320-pro-mx-series-sidestick

6. Skalarki

https://www.skalarki-electronics.eu/onlineshop/product/240-side-stick-p-p.html

Don't forget.

I have the Yoke> Incomparable with othes

https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/produkt-uebersicht/

Regards
John

[Andrej Ropret]

23 hours ago, Jovabra said:

Don't forget.

I have the Yoke> Incomparable with othes

https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/produkt-uebersicht/

Regards
John

thank you John,

Very good idea, I did not know they produce A320 sidestick on FF also. I was searching the Youtube and internet but I cannot find a video or user reviews of this sidestick.

Brunner CLS-E A320

If I read correctly you own their yoke, so it feels different than a sidestick.

Anyhow I send email to Brunner and I hope to get a link or photos/video how does it look in reality.

I would love to feel difference between FSC, ACC 3.0 and Brunner one, then decide.

Regards.

[Jack van Braam]

41 minutes ago, Andrej Ropret said:

thank you John,

Very good idea, I did not know they produce A320 sidestick on FF also. I was searching the Youtube and internet but I cannot find a video or user reviews of this sidestick.

Brunner CLS-E A320

If I read correctly you own their yoke, so it feels different than a sidestick.

Anyhow I send email to Brunner and I hope to get a link or photos/video how does it look in reality.

I would love to feel difference between FSC, ACC 3.0 and Brunner one, then decide.

Regards.

I have no idea about the differance between the yoke and the stick. Look and ask on  there forum.

https://forum.brunner-innovation.swiss/

Succes.

[Andrej Ropret]

Well for me the dillema is solved, yesterday I ordered ACC PROSRV 3.0 with selenoid lock (disconnects sidestick when you engage AP1/2 and you hear this click) and chose the HAT switch also, to be able ti simply pan around the airplane, even if this feature will not match the real stick.

Selenoid in action (video):

Selenoid demo on PROSRV 3.0

Then I was thinking if I pay such ammount for a sidestick, why not add a tiller and I have a full package. And if both are from the same producer, I can be sure they will worl nicely in pair.

And not to forget, I chose the mounting plate for real cockpit.

 

ACC is proved design and I believe I shall be satisfied next 30 years flying it. And it was a quick response from ACC combined with a tiller package that made me order their product.

[Andrej Ropret]

Just a quick update for people who are thinking of ordering at ACC:

BEWARE!!!

5 months passed and I am still waiting for a sidestick and tiller, even though I had to prepay 60% in advance... I keep sending emails, try to call, write on website form, on ACC Facebook page and nothing works... Tobias, the owner of ACC Controls, ignores my writing completely and does not deliver on time, so I suggest you to stay away. One of the reasons to choose among other producers was also  ”Made in Germany” which unfortunately in the name of ACC is not worth it, at least it looks like now. Presently it looks more like a SCAM then any true quality.

Not to mention their website was down for some time until I asked with email if they are bankrupt as website does not work anymore.

BEWARE!!!

[Nico Wollschläger]

Can absolutely confirm this. I tried ordering Seats via ACC and got ignored as well. Brilliant if you want to spend a huge amount of money there...

A pity since ACC was the only one to sell seats with a - as it seemed - decent quality for an okay price.

[Maxime Boyer]

Andrej, do you have news about your stick and tiller? 

I own the brunner one. I really love it ! I'm not real airbus pilot (only PPL) so I didn't have the chance to test the real stick (and feel the real forces) but I can say for sure that the ACC2.0, the flightdecksolution and the Skalarki are only spring loaded so the stick returns to center position very strongly. 

The ACC3.0 and the FSC are both with dampers and for sure more accurate.

The Brunner works with 2 motors controlled by a software. You can choose a lot of things, forces applied in the case of an airbus, but you can also fly GA and you will feel the light force on the stick on ground, and faster the aircraft fly, more forces will apply to the stick. It's really impressive, you really feel the differences flying at 200kts, and flying at 80kts on approach with GA for example.

I don't know if the forces are strong enough compared to the real stick, but the feeling is here and you can fly different planes, with different profiles.IMG_2403.HEIC

[Johncarlo Maddalena]

Originally I was interested in the ACC3.0 but with those reporting issues with delivery of their sidestick and tiller I decided to order a Brunner one instead. 

It is currently in transit to Australia and I am looking forward to using it

[Maxime Boyer]

12 hours ago, Johncarlo Maddalena said:

Originally I was interested in the ACC3.0 but with those reporting issues with delivery of their sidestick and tiller I decided to order a Brunner one instead. 

It is currently in transit to Australia and I am looking forward to using it

I think the ACC needs more space, the box is bigger than the Brunner one which is quite little. 

But of course the Brunner needs a good box, or mounting plate because with the forces, you can't leave the box on the desk, or on a table you have to attach it.

 

If you fly several aircraft, you can change the way the stick will respond, which is really really cool ! 

[Johncarlo Maddalena]

I purchased a Monstertech table mount for the Brunner controller.  I was previously using one of their table mounts for my Thrustmaster t.16000m controller.  I will be repurposing this mount plate by putting a hole in it for the FSC tiller I ordered

[Johncarlo Maddalena]

My Brunner controller arrived today, and I am really impressed.

I just did a quick circuit around London and the controller with the standard settings out of the box was quite a different experience to the other controller I have. 

@Maxime Boyer are you using the default profile that came with the controller or are you using a modified one?

I am not familiar with the feeling of the sidestick in a real aircraft and was wondering if the default profile is similar to the way the real aircraft is

[Maxime Boyer]

On 2/23/2021 at 4:22 AM, Johncarlo Maddalena said:

My Brunner controller arrived today, and I am really impressed.

I just did a quick circuit around London and the controller with the standard settings out of the box was quite a different experience to the other controller I have. 

@Maxime Boyer are you using the default profile that came with the controller or are you using a modified one?

I am not familiar with the feeling of the sidestick in a real aircraft and was wondering if the default profile is similar to the way the real aircraft is

Great to hear that !

Are you using the CLS2sim software? 

I'm not familial with the real airbus stick too, and the ones I used on based simulators were from skalarki or ACC so spring loaded, and not damped. I only make my feeling from videos and from a document (in french) were I can find the real forces applied to the stick. According to that, I tried to replicate these forces, but the Brunner CLS E Joystick does not have enough forces (the CLS P joystick have it.. but I don't know the price haha), so I  applied less forces but try to use the proportional difference between pitch and roll. I made my own profile and I would very pleased to find a real airbus pilot to test it. But as I can see from different sidestick videos, my profile seems good. It's good for me.

 

The default profile (when you click on "new profile" and set as default), is very strong on roll. I'm not sure the real stick needs force like that.. maybe at the end of the course, but not near to center. I saw videos were the pilots doesn't need so much forces for small inputs.

[Andrej Ropret]

On 2/15/2021 at 9:49 PM, Maxime Boyer said:

Andrej, do you have news about your stick and tiller?

YES, I finally have an update on the whole situation. I managed to get my prepayment back, Mr. Tobias from ACC.controls sent me back my money as I gave it up few months ago after no reply from him. That is very good news, to my surprise.

In the meantime in Autumn I gave it up with ACC so I found myself an original OEM A320 captain sidestick, tiller, pedestal and I am soon about to finish the rework. I must say I enjoy it even more when doing the rework. I will post some photos when finished. It will be great as I will have a proper feeling on the sidestick finally, not the Logitech feeling..

Long story short: read all the above posts and decide by yourself, but in a way I regret I did not order swiss-quality: the Brunner one, but now it turned out it was even better as now I have a pleasure of remaking the original one into a sim one. It is sooo much fun, even more then flying, I could say.

[Andrej Ropret]

Like I wrote: lots of fun and careful thinking behind rework. And this is what is all about!

Few weeks and it will be ready for a test flight.

[Maxime Boyer]

8 hours ago, Andrej Ropret said:

YES, I finally have an update on the whole situation. I managed to get my prepayment back, Mr. Tobias from ACC.controls sent me back my money as I gave it up few months ago after no reply from him. That is very good news, to my surprise.

In the meantime in Autumn I gave it up with ACC so I found myself an original OEM A320 captain sidestick, tiller, pedestal and I am soon about to finish the rework. I must say I enjoy it even more when doing the rework. I will post some photos when finished. It will be great as I will have a proper feeling on the sidestick finally, not the Logitech feeling..

Long story short: read all the above posts and decide by yourself, but in a way I regret I did not order swiss-quality: the Brunner one, but now it turned out it was even better as now I have a pleasure of remaking the original one into a sim one. It is sooo much fun, even more then flying, I could say.

Cool ! really glad to hear that !

You have your money back it's a really good news.

 

Regarding the OEM, wow so fun and of course you will have the real feeling, but you have to do some adjustments to make it functional for simulation, that's very interesting

Brunner is really a good stick, as I said for airbus of course but even for GA aircraft with their software which can modify the feeling of the stick (of course the handle is stil airbus one ;)) 

I fly airbus and DR400 and the feeling is really close to the HR200 of my club. But of course this topic talk about airbus.

 

Thanks for posting pictures

 

[Tobias Bernhardt]

Dear all enthusiast,

 

We are writing you here to let you know some perception of the Situation with your orders and ACC. 

First of all, we are quite sorry for the bad experiences some of you made. This is nothing we need in our flight sim community. 

Building flight simulator parts is our passion, nearly since a decade, and what we build is absolute quality, but the COVID year 2020 was a disastrous year for all of us. Some were hit harder, some not, but at the end, there are humans behind and private fates and so on, and so we keep fighting against the virus and against the economic damages. We’d like to stay at our passion.

 

We now like to comment a bit what was written here about our company. 

First of all, we are no scammers. We never embezzled money of our customers and we never had the intention to do so. 

The experience Mr. Ropret made is a very bad one. Short after his order we had to close the shop. We had to release all employees due to the income breakdown and high factory rent. Me and one helper had to rock all alone and we were not able to finish stuff on time anymore. We had lack of communication and also issues with health. We fought and we won as it seems. It becomes better now, more and more. 

We cleared all and Mr. Ropret got his deposit back for sure. Mr. Szegedi, who asked for a Seat, never got through to us! We are sorry about it, but if you are still interested, we surely happy to make you an offer! 

But please don’t treat us a scammer immediately. This is what we are really not. 

 

The things some Mr. Walleghem posted here one day are an absolute untruth. We are a real company with real employees and real products. Please do not believe in lies that we would have a fake location and fake webpages. We would be happy to show you all of our factory and machines and products. Everybody can feel free to visit us for a coffee. 

We just wanted to comment this topic here as a “sorry” for the experiences, but also as a clear answer to lies and fast presumptions - which are not fair and making us life much heavier as it is already at Covid times. 

 

We will keep fighting and we are happy for every customer who got a nice product. We are happy for Mr. Ropret for the OEM Sidestick - which is pretty cool! We are happy for all the Brunner Customers, which we are working close together btw on controlled loading systems for rudders, and we are happy about every simmer and enthusiast who is looking for flight controls. 

We would be happy if this letter would find you well and if it maybe brings back some confidence to our company. 

 

Let’s stay together against the crisis and stay healthy. We wish you all the best.

 

Tobias Bernhardt & the ACC Team
 

[Maxime Boyer]

Thanks Tobias for you explanation, and really thanks to be honest with the flight sim community.

I did not buy one of your product, because I did't want stick with springs, and your V3.0 is too heavy compared to the Brunner little box  (and I have the possibility to fly other light aircraft like GA which uses sticks.

I saw on your website that you prepare the tiller only! good news

 

[Andrej Ropret]

Sidestick nearly finished. Works very well, need to install an ashtray, LED light and it will be done. The OEM tiller works very nice also.

[Sebastian Vogt]

Hello guys, I just me here as I followed this thread for professional flight controls. I’m quite impressed about the work on the OEM Sidestick! 
Nevertheless I wanted to share you my experiences with ACC. I planned to go for the SRV2.0 Sidestick and I was a bit afraid, but finally I ordered my SRV2.0 Stick + SRV2.0 Rudder Pedals and I must say that I’m impressed.
They changed my order to the new 2.5 Stick and it took about 4 now weeks to get it. 
I think it’s a perfect designed and machined piece. I had a Megatron Joystick before, which was good, but that’s another league. 
In two weeks I will get my rudders and I will report!

 

Greetings,

Sebastian

[Sebastian Vogt]

Hello Guys, I just posted my review as a topic like I promised

Best regards!

Sebi

[Bernd Bruechmann]

On 2/28/2021 at 11:29 AM, Tobias Bernhardt said:

Dear all enthusiast,

 

We are writing you here to let you know some perception of the Situation with your orders and ACC. 

First of all, we are quite sorry for the bad experiences some of you made. This is nothing we need in our flight sim community. 

Building flight simulator parts is our passion, nearly since a decade, and what we build is absolute quality, but the COVID year 2020 was a disastrous year for all of us. Some were hit harder, some not, but at the end, there are humans behind and private fates and so on, and so we keep fighting against the virus and against the economic damages. We’d like to stay at our passion.

 

We now like to comment a bit what was written here about our company. 

First of all, we are no scammers. We never embezzled money of our customers and we never had the intention to do so. 

The experience Mr. Ropret made is a very bad one. Short after his order we had to close the shop. We had to release all employees due to the income breakdown and high factory rent. Me and one helper had to rock all alone and we were not able to finish stuff on time anymore. We had lack of communication and also issues with health. We fought and we won as it seems. It becomes better now, more and more. 

We cleared all and Mr. Ropret got his deposit back for sure. Mr. Szegedi, who asked for a Seat, never got through to us! We are sorry about it, but if you are still interested, we surely happy to make you an offer! 

But please don’t treat us a scammer immediately. This is what we are really not. 

 

The things some Mr. Walleghem posted here one day are an absolute untruth. We are a real company with real employees and real products. Please do not believe in lies that we would have a fake location and fake webpages. We would be happy to show you all of our factory and machines and products. Everybody can feel free to visit us for a coffee. 

We just wanted to comment this topic here as a “sorry” for the experiences, but also as a clear answer to lies and fast presumptions - which are not fair and making us life much heavier as it is already at Covid times. 

 

We will keep fighting and we are happy for every customer who got a nice product. We are happy for Mr. Ropret for the OEM Sidestick - which is pretty cool! We are happy for all the Brunner Customers, which we are working close together btw on controlled loading systems for rudders, and we are happy about every simmer and enthusiast who is looking for flight controls. 

We would be happy if this letter would find you well and if it maybe brings back some confidence to our company. 

 

Let’s stay together against the crisis and stay healthy. We wish you all the best.

 

Tobias Bernhardt & the ACC Team
 

Hello Mr. Bernhardt,

because of your statment you have given to us, and the newer experience of Sebastian Vogt, who received Stick and Padels from you, i´ve have decided to order the Sidestick and Tiller in November ´21. You´ve sent me an e-mail quickly with the Details of the Order and an Invoice aswell which i have payed immediatly. In the Orderconfirmation i´ve got an ETA of December ´21, but i haven´t got my order since today. 

I have already sent e-mails to you main adress and even to the E-mail of your customer service. But haven´t got any response. Not even a single word. 

Look, i don´t want to blame anyone, because the overall situation in terms of bulkmaterials and electronics availbilty is unbelieveable and unreliable because of PostCovid and Ukraine sactions situtation. But i would be happy if you would audit your communication to customers. I wouldn´t have any problem with the fact that i need to be patient and exspect long delay, but my understatement is limited in case of this kind of lack in information. 

I´am still patient to hear from you some day, but you can´t wonder about those negative comments here if you don´t talk to customers who hold the light on you.

Regards

Bernd

[Bernd Bruechmann]

UPDATE to my Post about ACC

I called T. Bernhardt by Telephone and he called back immediatly. He was aware about me and my order and he´s very sorry about the lack of communication. But the most important part is that it proofs at least, what TB mentioned about his Company here in the forum. I think it is just fair to ACC to let you all know about this. 

As i was told, my order will be shipped soon, may be, because there are still issues of material availbilty these days, of course, but i will get an estimate soon.

Personal contact can´t be beaten in terms of trust and i´am confident about ACC, because T. Bernhardt is a real person and ACC a real company.

Regards

Bernd

[Andrej Ropret]

Hello Bernd,

I know how did you feel all these months checking email Inbox daily hoping for an ACC email to arrive. I do hope you got the sidestick by now (August) and you are happy and satisfied user.

Write us how is it to fly with your new sidestick and tiller.

 

PS: my project is slowly going forward due to huge amount of flying the real Airbus, but now I am finishing the MIP (Main Instrument Panel). Will post some progress in new Topic/Post.

[Bernd Bruechmann]

Now, today i´ve got my sidestick and i´am satisfied, indeed. Yes, it turned out that i needed to wait a little longer as exspected, but in today times, with post covid logistic issues and the Ukrainian/Russia conflict i already know that patience is what you need actually. And my patience was valued by ACC. When i ordered my stick i´ve ordered the ACC 2.0 But because of the long time waiting, i´ve got the bigger 4.0, which has a mechanic like the real one, without any additional payment as a kind of provision. This is Service. This stick is really a durable and heavy piece of HW and the touch and feel is at least 99 % as the real one. In general the craftmenship of the ACC is remarkable. 

My trust in Mr. Bernhardt was not disappointed and i can clearly confirm that ACC IS an reliable Company, with an outstanding Quality. Even if it takes sometimes a little longer to get in contact with them.  

[Andrej Ropret]

Wooowww, amazing, looks really nice! So it was worth the waiting till end of September. We will be happy to see more photos, how you mounted it next to the table, as it is a big piece of hardware and read the review then.

Seems like a truly sturdy design, unbreakable. Enjoy the long autumn-winter evenings flying around the Airbus.