Nvidia 382.53 / 384.76 Drivers and DEVICE_HUNG

[Alberto Zanot]

Hello Dear FlightSimLabs staff,

I would like to kindly ask if you are working on an update to make FsSpotlights work with latest drivers and P3D v3.

Looks like everybody is having the DEVICE_HUNG issue with latest drivers.

Thanks in advance.

[Norman Blackburn]

Alberto,

 

The newest drivers don't work too well for some people.  I would suggest staying with a driver that doesn't give this error.

[Alberto Zanot]

Hi Norman, 

This is not a solution. 

And naturally no one expect a fix from NVidia. So it is up to FSLabs. 

Or i think that a refund would be fair from FSLabs. Infact, i wait for a reply from the staff, then i will ask for it. 

Nowhere in this world you stop support because of new drivers come out. 

[Norman Blackburn]

Why on earth would you not expect Nvidia - the people who broke it - to also fix It?

[Alberto Zanot]

Because this is the way it works. 

Developers have to follow the driver software updates and improvement. 

If the drivers are improved, and there is only one or few applications not working after the update, it is up to the developers to fix them.

I am waiting for an official answer before getting refunded.

I am tired being robbed by developers with their hit and run applications, expecially in the flight simulation addons world.

I payed for it LIFETIME. Not "until next driver update".

[Katja Mueller]

I'm on Alberto's site!

I'm playing many many other games also an not only P3D. So I must update nvidia drivers!!
What's the big problem here? The same error was fixed by fslabs one year ago! Why fslabs cannot fixe this now?

[Lefteris Kalamaras]

13 hours ago, Alberto Zanot said:

Because this is the way it works. 

Developers have to follow the driver software updates and improvement. 

If the drivers are improved, and there is only one or few applications not working after the update, it is up to the developers to fix them.

I am waiting for an official answer before getting refunded.

I am tired being robbed by developers with their hit and run applications, expecially in the flight simulation addons world.

I payed for it LIFETIME. Not "until next driver update".

Dear Alberto,

we would be more than happy to fix a bug that is due to code in our application. This problem started manifesting itself in NVidia's drivers after 382.05. It is something they changed and broke. If you take a look around the forums (visit NVidia's site too if you like) you'll notice that people are having issues with DXGI errors even if they don't run flight simulation software at all.

Yes, Spotlights might make this error manifest itself because something inside NVidia's drivers is now more sensitive to long frames (that is the technical term for the error you are seeing - it's long frames that the driver has less tolerance for now). However, it's not the single cause for them - it is the graphics card being overloaded with demand that is causing this to happen.

To expect us to be able to fix a "new problem" inside NVidia's drivers puts us in an impossible situation, as we have no channel of communication with NVidia. Lockheed Martin does and they have already admitted in their forum that it is an issue inside P3Dv3 - you will also notice that there are no complaints whatsoever that P3Dv4 has this issue, so they have changed something in the DX drawing call logic that has fixed the problem, but they have never specified if that can be applied backwards in v3 or if they're willing to produce any further hotfixes for v3 now that v4 is out.

Our Spotlights for v4 (in testing) do not exhibit this issue either...

We recommend that you go back to drivers 376.33 until our v4 products are released.

PS. Spotlights for v4 will be a free upgrade and they will also work with the existing serial number purchased for FSX/v3.

PPS. If you are going to request support about something in our forum, would you kindly please follow our rules about posting with your real name?

[Alberto Zanot]

So why you were able to fix the device_hung months ago? 

Pps: THAT username is my real name. 

[Lefteris Kalamaras]

So why you were able to fix the device_hung months ago? 
Pps: THAT username is my real name. 

Yep the forum merged replies. The request was for the other member.

We weren't able to fix the device hung issue as it was never ours. We keep updating spotlights to make them compatible with latest p3d versions.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[Dean Johnston]

Guys!!! As I've said before device hung is graphics Card driver issues.. please uninstall your graphics drivers and install a one! Nvidia have said that, as even once a friend got a device hung issue/error on BF1 with a 1080, fixed by installing a new driver, guys please stop posting these device hung issues on the FSL forums as it isn't their fault..fully agree with lefteris 

8 minutes ago, Lefteris Kalamaras said:

Yep the forum merged replies. The request was for the other member.

We weren't able to fix the device hung issue as it was never ours. We keep updating spotlights to make them compatible with latest p3d versions.


Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
 

 

[Alberto Zanot]

1 hour ago, Lefteris Kalamaras said:

We weren't able to fix the device hung issue as it was never ours. We keep updating spotlights to make them compatible with latest p3d versions. 

Yes you were:

So why not this time? 

@DeanJohnston2717

I dont even reply you, as most of people is with my pov. Read it above. 

[Lefteris Kalamaras]

Yes you were:
So why not this time? 
[mention=15977]DeanJohnston2717[/mention]
I dont even reply you, as most of people is with my pov. Read it above. 

OK apparently you seem to either intentionally or unintentionally want to miss what I am saying. We provide updates when LM provide hotfixes. If they provide a new one we will follow. I don't see that happening however as they moved on to v4.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[Alberto Zanot]

Well ok, it is becoming more clear to me.

So, when i bought FsSpotlights i didn't see any clause saying "this app will work only with xxx.xx nvidia drivers".

Lefteris, how can i ask for a refund?

[Lefteris Kalamaras]

2 hours ago, Alberto Zanot said:

Yes you were:

So why not this time? 

@DeanJohnston2717

I dont even reply you, as most of people is with my pov. Read it above. 

Now I am convinced that you're purposefully misquoting me.

the dxgi.dll crash was a CRASH - i.e. the code was accessing a null pointer. That was found and fixed. An update was issued to support that.

The "device hung" issue started when 1) LM issued hotfixes after 3.3.5 and 2) NVidia issued drivers that caused the long frames not to be tolerated (i.e. a warning that your graphics card is being pushed beyond limits).

Neither of those problems stem from Spotlights. Both those issues appear even without spotlights, if your card is pushed beyond limits (as the versions after 3.3.5 tend to do, depending on your graphics hardware).

I will repeat - and end this here, as you don't seem to wish to understand, but are only trying to flare up a conversation: We have asked LM about this and they have admitted it was a problem that required a "major version" release - i.e. it is fixed in P3D v4. They are not willing to go back and redo the code for v3 for this.

Regarding refunds for spotlights:

The product is offered as a "try-before-you-buy" version - you load it, ensure it works fully to your satisfaction, and if so, you purchase. Asking for a refund because later versions of third party software were installed is not going to happen, especially since we said that 1) spotlights for v4 are free updates, 2) A320-X for v4 is a free upgrade if you own v3.

For now, you have two options:

1) Go back to driver 376.33 which is fully working.

2) Wait for v4 Spotlights.

[Lefteris Kalamaras]

1 hour ago, Alberto Zanot said:

Well ok, it is becoming more clear to me.

So, when i bought FsSpotlights i didn't see any clause saying "this app will work only with xxx.xx nvidia drivers".

Lefteris, how can i ask for a refund?

Any and all software is guaranteed to work with the software that is available at the time of release. All updates are best-effort-only (and in our case we have said repeatedly that v4 updates will be free if you own the software at the time we release them).

[Alberto Zanot]

13 minutes ago, Lefteris Kalamaras said:

For now, you have two options:

1) Go back to driver 376.33 which is fully working.

2) Wait for v4 Spotlights.

They are NOT an option.

Unless Spolight v4 will be compatible with P3D v3, and without any crash (utopy)

13 minutes ago, Lefteris Kalamaras said:

Any and all software is guaranteed to work with the software that is available at the time of release. All updates are best-effort-only (and in our case we have said repeatedly that v4 updates will be free if you own the software at the time we release them).

So all P3Dv3 users are trolled.

Nice one.

[Lefteris Kalamaras]

4 minutes ago, Alberto Zanot said:

So all P3Dv3 users are trolled.

Nice one.

Alberto,

you seem to be spending an awful lot of time in our forum trying to find a solution to a problem that is NOT caused by our software. Our software was NOT updated to cause crashes, it was not updated at all since NVidia's driver 376.33 as it was working fine.

The driver updates that NVidia posted cause this issue. Why you are not in THEIR forum asking THEM for a fix is beyond me, to be honest.

[Alberto Zanot]

NVidia do not care about minor developers.

But customers expect minor developers to fix their products, according to Nvidia updates or changes.
Nvidia did not screwed up your app on purpose. They changed something to make drivers better, and unfortunately this something screwed your app, but this "unfortunately" is FOR YOU, not for customers. Why do we have to pay?! You should stay updated with their releases, not viceversa. 

People go to Nvidia forums if there are problems with, let's say, Fifa, Battlefield, Prepar3d itself.
And if it is Nvidia issue they fix very soon, couse they have to sell their videocards.

But it happened viceversa for big games as well. I was an Elite:Dangerous pay beta tester, and at a point an nvidia update screwed up the game. So then it was Frontier Developments that fixed the game!!! AS EXPECTED!
So ok, i payed 100$ for E:D, but this does not mean a thing, even if i payed 24$ for your addon, I demand and i deserve, same support from you.

 

[Ben Smith]

Hey Alberto, 

I'm sadly experiencing the same issue as you, as are a lot of people who are using the latest Nvidia drivers with FS Spotlights within P3D v3.

Although it is extremely annoying and frustrating I have to side with Lefteris. If Nvidia hadn't of updated there drivers, FS spotlights wouldn't of started experiencing issues and LM wouldn't of realized they also had an issue. 

Now sadly I would imagine LM are not going to release a major update for a simulator that is now effectively an old platform as V4 is out and that is the platform they will continue to develop.

I did roll back to an earlier driver myself initially and that solved the issue whilst seemly giving me slightly better performance within V3. (I think that is probably the best option if you don't have V4).

I have however bought P3D v4 and the new Nvidia drivers give me a better performance in that simulator so I've updated to them which left me no choice but to remove FS Spotlights so I can still use V3 and fly the Labs A320, the downfall is you can only fly in the day time. 

The bottom line is, spotlights can't be rectified until LM fix their issue which is something these guys can't force them to do, it might be worth dropping a few emails to LM to ask the question if they are going to make changes to V3.

Hope you get sorted.
 

[Alberto Zanot]

Ben, i'm sorry but i fully disagree.
Drivers update is a natural process of evolution. Devs have to keep up with this.
 

[Dean Johnston]

1 hour ago, Alberto Zanot said:

Ben, i'm sorry but i fully disagree.
Drivers update is a natural process of evolution. Devs have to keep up with this.
 

Hmmm. Drivers aren't a natural process if they aren't worth updating to.. if I'd the lastest drivers to be not as good as older driver as (376.33), why update If your driver works great.. drivers are the issue of this topic not spotlights causing performance issues related to this topic 

[Alberto Zanot]

Again, disagree. I can't play some new games with those drivers. I can't do other system settings with those drivers. So, yes it is a natural process. 

I opened a ticket in support, to ask for a refund, and you replied that this is not going to happen. 

"if you activate the serial provided, you will lose any rights to be refunded" 

This is the most sensless and funny sentence ever heard. If i dont activate the product, how am i supposed to see if it works? 

Unbelievable. 

This is what i call digital robbery, and basically you are thieves. 

It is because of bad companies, bad developers and bad people like you that piracy grow up. 

Over and out. 

[Lefteris Kalamaras]

Alberto,

I've responded to you many times in good faith, only to get progressively more aggressive replies back from you, with the latest one calling us thieves.

You are quite aware that FSLSpotlights is a free download, correct? And that you are permitted to run it without any serial number activation requirements (with the limitation that you have to fly around LGAV airport) to see if it fits your needs 100%, correct?

That means that before you make a decision to purchase it, you have full awareness if it functions properly on your computer.

Purchasing a license means exactly that - you were quite satisfied with how it works ON YOUR COMPUTER.

That's exactly what you did: You purchased because you were satisfied it works well and you wanted to unlock that functionality around the entire digital sim globe.

In fact, the product kept working 100% properly, UNTIL the time you decided to update your NVidia drivers to the latest version which happens to cause DXGI HUNG errors on computers that have graphics cards that are not able to cope with the extra demand. This is 100% an NVidia driver bug, it was NOT manifesting before their update and it is something we have 0% control over how to fix. You could, however, choose to work around it by taking steps described in other threads in this forum, but you instead chose to focus your efforts on calling us thieves and asking for a refund for a product that works perfectly well, if you take the steps required.

I am taking your accusations VERY seriously, such behavior will not be tolerated in our forum. As of this moment, your posts are going to be moderated. Should you wish to reconsider your actions and apologize for your accusations, please let me know via a support ticket.

[Khoa Nguyen]

one thing simple, he doesn't try to understand the problem, everyone understands the problem clearly, you guys should not waste your time replying his comments, he said he was over and out so this case can be closed!

[Lothar Gentzsch]

I,am verry disappointed. Long time my system ( WIN 10 with Geforce 945M, P3Dv3 an FSL A320 and Spotlight Build 33) run verry well. Yesterday I got the newest driver - 384.94 - and the system crashed with that error. Now I have Spotlight deinstalled and P3Dv3 working again , but without Spotlight.

What shall we do ? Back to older driver or what ?

 

Regards

Lothar

[Lefteris Kalamaras]

On 7/21/2017 at 10:37 AM, Lefteris Kalamaras said:

This is 100% an NVidia driver bug, it was NOT manifesting before their update and it is something we have 0% control over how to fix. You could, however, choose to work around it by taking steps described in other threads in this forum.

Hi Lothar,

we realize this might be disappointing to you, but honestly, the best approach would be to complain to NVidia - we're also trying but it's not an easy task. For now, we recommend you go back to drivers 376.33 or anything before 382.05, which should work OK.

The best solution would be if NVidia recognized the issue and could figure out why it's happening, because all we're seeing in our debug builds is "the device was hung" - very disappointing to us as well.

[Lefteris Kalamaras]

PS. Spotlights for Prepar3D v4 (under development) is not exhibiting this issue as P3D v4 itself is not exhibiting this issue either.

[Lothar Gentzsch]

Many thanks, Lefteris. I´ve sent a complain to NVidia. Then I made a rollback to driver 381.89. The older 376.33 will not accepted by my system. As you and other user reported no crash occured with the older one.

My main focus is now for P3Dv4. PMDG B737NGX is running verry good, Aerosoft A320 will follow in August an FSL320 and Spotlight will follow.......................?

looking forward

Regards

Lothar

 

 

[Greg Caesar]

Lies. 

 

FSL is completely at fault.

[Dean Johnston]

8 hours ago, Greg Caesar said:

Lies. 

 

FSL is completely at fault.

Just stop,Maybe if you actaully did research you would find that issue occurs with triple A Titles NOT just flightsim or FSL A320, /spotlights ,do you even know what the message means?

[Greg Caesar]

10 hours ago, DeanJohnston2717 said:

Just stop,Maybe if you actaully did research you would find that issue occurs with triple A Titles NOT just flightsim or FSL A320, /spotlights ,do you even know what the message means?

And maybe if you stopped typing nonsense for two seconds you would realize how ridiculous you're being.

[Dean Johnston]

wow,you clearly dont know about drivers then do you! lol ,you must be one of these people who blame anyone because you have a problem and you cant face the fact that it is something else causing this driver issue which infact is the driver version,Bet you if you used driver 376.33 you wouldnt have this issue

[Greg Caesar]

5 hours ago, DeanJohnston2717 said:

wow,you clearly dont know about drivers then do you! lol ,you must be one of these people who blame anyone because you have a problem and you cant face the fact that it is something else causing this driver issue which infact is the driver version,Bet you if you used driver 376.33 you wouldnt have this issue

Wouldn't have an issue with said driver because FSL has yet to update the code so that this error will no longer occur with newer drivers.

[stephen speak]

i started having problems earlier this year..auto update of graphics drivers were doing it..i stopped that happening and i am now and have been for quite a few months running driver version 382.05 dated 05/04/2017..this is the last one that works with P3D and the A320X..this isn't an FSL problem..the FSL product is an add on inside the LM P3dV3..this driver is down to LM and nvidia not communicating...the people at FSL can't do anything about updates for hardware that doesn't communicate properly with the software its supposed to work with..i suggest you roll back your drivers to one that works and stop going on about it not working..its obvious what it it..im sure the team at FSL would have sorted it by now if it was within their control..i had problems when i first bought the A320..they were sorted out through the support network..they have enough on their hands trying to get the next version of the airbus released without wasting time on things they can do nothing about

rant over

steve