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[PROCEDURE] Entering approach in the MCDU


Manfred Tamminga

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Manfred Tamminga

Hi there,

is there a possibility to enter a STAR or Transition first, before entering the active runway? My questions is because of following: I´m doing online ATC flights. Approaching Munich last time My last programmed waypoint was ANORA, by the ATC I was given clearance to BURAM and the ANORA2A STAR not knowing if the runway was 26L or 26R. But as far as I know one can only choose a STAR/Transiton when an active runway was choosen first? Am I wrong with that? So I choose 26R randomly. So luckily later on I was adviced to land on 26R. But i also could have been 26L, so I had to switch the programmed runway during approach. So simply asked again. Is there a possibility to choose a STAR/Transition in the MCDU before choosing a runway? Does someone know how it is done in real life aviation?

 

All the best

 

Manfred

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Norman S Bowman

I think that you try to use the avaliable information to select the Runway,Star  and transition in advance then if things change at the last minute you have to re-program the MCDU.

I have checked a couple of DVDs  a few days ago re this procedure.

Flying into EGLL for instance the daily usage of the 27R/L runways is posted in advance and the known changeover time is advised to all airlines.If an aircraft is out of time sequence having flown 3000 miles into a headwind the pilots would have to reprogram the arrival

.In order to enter a star I think that a runway has to be selected for the runway to appear in the MCDU.  

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Yes you always have to enter the runway first this is the procedure.

The thing we do in that case is prepare an approach for the other runway in the SEC FPLN and activate it if there is a runway change. Unfortunetly this feature is still missing...

You can also ask the atc which runway to expect for arrival once you're in contact with them.

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2 hours ago, Check Airman said:

You can enter the STAR without the runway. On the ARRIVAL page, where you'd select the runway, press the NEXT PAGE button (or the RH arrow button) to access the STARS.

There is no point in doing that.

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Alfredo Russo

hi guys usually i insertthe arrival when i know the runway not at departure. In case i insert the arrival star and runway at departure if i have to change it i have always mess as the previouse approach inserted is not substituted by the new one but it mess up with the new one having an odd approach . Now i was wondering. Not to have this problem i should insert the approach without deleting the discontinuity and clear the discontinuity only once i have been cleared by ATC with the correct approach and runway? 

 

Thanks 

Alfredo

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9 hours ago, Check Airman said:

 


Nor is there any point in sitting at the departure gate, worrying about which runway I'm using at the end of a 2-5hr flight. It's probably going to change.

 

I told you, in real life you enter the whole route with the expected runway ( found on the OFP ) when preparing the mcdu.

Then you prepare your descent before the TOD ( take the atis, prepare the mcdu for arrival ).

If you are not sure about the runway in use even in the atis, you ask the atc. He will tell you expect X arrival for runway X.

Or if you suspect a last minute change, you insert the arrival for the second rwy in the SEC FPLN so you are ready.

Thing is you always need a runway and arrival set on the mcdu for calculation purposes ( time, fuel, etc ).

And by the way the a320 mcdu is smart enough to allow quick changes for runways. It takes like 10 seconds to select a new arrival,  runway and sequence the flight plan.

 

 

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I told you, in real life you enter the whole route with the expected runway ( found on the OFP ) when preparing the mcdu.




Then you prepare your descent before the TOD ( take the atis, prepare the mcdu for arrival ).




If you are not sure about the runway in use even in the atis, you ask the atc. He will tell you expect X arrival for runway X.




Or if you suspect a last minute change, you insert the arrival for the second rwy in the SEC FPLN so you are ready.




Thing is you always need a runway and arrival set on the mcdu for calculation purposes ( time, fuel, etc ).



And by the way the a320 mcdu is smart enough to allow quick changes for runways. It takes like 10 seconds to select a new arrival,  runway and sequence the flight plan.




That's one technique. Not all flightplans have takeoff and landing runways.
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Really? It has been an while since I did my ATPL. Does your airline have ones without?




Yes. Even if the runway is on the flightplan, I'm not too concerned about what runway I'll be using at the end of a transcon. The runway config will probably change 4 times before I land.
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Frank de Witt
8 hours ago, Check Airman said:


Yes.

 

Ofcourse, I forgot that we do not all fly in Europe and have different rule sets around the world. 

Must be interesting from a fuel planning perspective in your part of the world. 

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Ofcourse, I forgot that we do not all fly in Europe and have different rule sets around the world. 








Must be interesting from a fuel planning perspective in your part of the world. 




Ha! No worries. Why do you think it makes fuel planning hard? Maybe you're accustomed to STARs that transition nicely to approaches? Those have only recently gained traction here. More commonly, the STAR just positions you somewhere near the airport.

In either case, we don't actually expect to fly the entire STAR or approach as published. The flight planning system includes an arrival and departure "fudge factor" to accommodate ATC vectors. That number is based on statistical analysis of historical data (so I'm told).

When checking the fms fuel plan against the paper flightplan, it's normal to see a few hundred pounds variance in the fuel required (I saw about 900lb a few weeks ago). Does your fms normally agree with the paper flightplan very well?
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1 hour ago, Check Airman said:


Ha! No worries. Why do you think it makes fuel planning hard? Maybe you're accustomed to STARs that transition nicely to approaches? Those have only recently gained traction here. More commonly, the STAR just positions you somewhere near the airport.

In either case, we don't actually expect to fly the entire STAR or approach as published. The flight planning system includes an arrival and departure "fudge factor" to accommodate ATC vectors. That number is based on statistical analysis of historical data (so I'm told).

When checking the fms fuel plan against the paper flightplan, it's normal to see a few hundred pounds variance in the fuel required (I saw about 900lb a few weeks ago). Does your fms normally agree with the paper flightplan very well?

Yes, gives you an accurate EFOB, extra fuel and ETA. That's why we enter the whole route and wind data.

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