Jump to content
Erick F-B-W

Seat position sight gauge ("coloured balls") A320

Recommended Posts

Erick F-B-W

As everyone knows, in the Airbus cockpit there is a “seat position sight gauge", (three small & coloured balls that allow pilot to adjust his viewpoint to a position allowing for a correct view of instrument panels as well as runway environment. For Cpt, point is correct when looking at the three balls, the left white ball is totally obscured by the red centre one).

I can't adjust FSX zoom + seat height in a "correct couple" so i can align w & r balls and see ECAM, PDF and ND screens (alignement of w & r balls removes the upper view of these screens). 

How do you manage this ?

Thanks for your help.

Cheers ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Mykel Talab

Think it's CTRL+pg up and pg down to adjust your height. The CTRL+Home and End to move forward and back. Not entirely sur though, but it's fine with EZDOK Cam. 

Check your views control assignment in th settings section. 

Share this post


Link to post
Erick F-B-W

Thanks for your answer, but I doubtless badly expressed myself : my question is not what are the FSX commands to adjust seat and zoom, but how exactly do you set your seat and FSX zoom to obtain a correct view of the three balls and the runway environment.

I mean what are your values : for me f.e., if i set FSX zoom to 0.30 or even 0.50, i can't align balls and view the entire screens (of ECAM, PFD, ND) at the same time.

So... it's sight gauge or screen view ?... See attached image : first : screens are visible but balls are not aligned / second : balls are aligned but upper angle of screen is not visible (cut). 

So are these balls in the 320X useless ("eye-candy" only) ?

:huh:

 

Capture 320x.JPG

Capture320x2.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Simon Kelsey

It's probably not possible to have your eyepoint in the correct position AND see all the screens unless you have a very large, very high resolution monitor.

Remember that in the real thing you wouldn't have all of this stuff in your direct field of view... you would have to physically move your head and look around to see the screens and other controls.

Edit: ah, I see what you mean. Not sure then!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
SpeedbirdA320FO

The simulation is so good he forgot he's at home at a computer :P

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Erick F-B-W

Simulation will be good if i can nearly forget it's a simulation...:D

In real plane you don't have to move your head to watch upper and lower panels in a quick view. .. this is the meaning of the "balls"...^_^

Share this post


Link to post
SpeedbirdA320FO
2 hours ago, Lapinou said:

Simulation will be good if i can nearly forget it's a simulation...:D

In real plane you don't have to move your head to watch upper and lower panels in a quick view. .. this is the meaning of the "balls"...^_^

 
 

This isn't a real plane, it's on a monitor! :P 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Erick F-B-W
10 hours ago, SpeedbirdA320FO said:

This isn't a real plane, it's on a monitor! :P 

mmm... Lucky for me you told that... but things don't get better either... Basically (that's what i got a long time ago) you set your seat before flying. Otherwise this 320X is just another (100$) toy, nothing out of the ordinary if the basics are not correct. Monitor has nothing to do with that. PMDG has done that very well, so why not here ? Sorry, that's how i see. 

Hope FSL will fix that however.

Share this post


Link to post
Geoff Bryce

As I recall the Majestic Q400 makes a point of you sitting in the seat for the first time, and maneuver your self about to line up with the 2 grey and one black ball. On the A320, I use 2D load, so not applicable for me, but I understand what Lapinou means. If the device is there, it should be usable, or advised otherwise by FSL.

Geoff

Share this post


Link to post
Alfredo Terrero

I suggest you watch this: 

its has a part 2

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Erick F-B-W

I'm OK with all these calculations, thank you for the link above.

But read carefully my second post : whatever the values of the FSX zoom or the seat height i choose, the problem is that i can't see correctly the balls and the screens (ECAM, PFD, ND) as you will normally do in real life. These balls are not designed for cockpits decoration or pilots comfort but for security... In the 320X, if i see correctly the balls (lined up), i need to "plunge" eyes/head under the glareshield to watch correctly the screens ! Sorry, i've never met this kind of dashboard (i can learn if necessary), and certainly not with Airbus philosophy... So, AFAIC, for now, cockpit view is geometrically unrealistic (wrong geometrical perspective, balls or windscreen pillars location / tilt perhaps, i don't know).  

Share this post


Link to post
Norman S Bowman

Hi,

This thread brings to mind a similar debate which happened when two NG came to the market with a  differing eyepoins .The general view was that as individuals we all have our own thoughts as to what is the ideal sitting position in an aircraft which is the same as finding our best driving position in a car..

In other words we all have our own views as to what is correct. Airbus have given us some visual clues as to what they think is the ideal position.However this viewpoint as produced for a "Mr" average pilot which as we all are aware pilots come in all shapes and sizes and we all have our own ideal position.

As it is a simulation and working within the bounds of FSX/P3D it is up to us to find our ideal flying position working with the tools which we are given.Real World simulators have adjustable seats fitted to cope with our varying sizes too.I would be very surprised if any operators SOP advised hat the pilot must fly with the sight balls aligned as Lapinou suggests .

Norman  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
NilsUnger

It is possible to allign white and red ball and still see the top of the sreens. This is with zoom 0.85. I once read the most realistic field of view is achieved with 0.9-1.0.

If I turn around 180 deg I am exactly positioned in the middle of the seat where I would expect the pilot to be.

vc.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Erick F-B-W

Ok, thanks for the help ! Just a question : in your fsx.cfg, is it with WideViewAspect =1 or 0 ?

I will try it ASAP. But, IMO the high value of zoom produces an unrealistic landscape and slows down its scrolling. It can fix the "balls" problem, but there's another problem then...

Let me explain : just have a look below : this is the same landscape at the same altitude, taken from a real microlight in the middle (real photo), then FSX image capture with zoom at 0.30 (down) and, last, FSX image capture with zoom at 0.80 (up). WideViewAspect=0. Look at the lake and the moutains surroundings. Basically, proportions are not respected at 0.80, valley is smaller at 0.80 but wider at 0.30 (majestically as it is in the real life). Logically, scrolling will also be slower because you magnified the image first. For being myself in the "real right seat" very often, i certainly feel that the central picture is the most realistic FSX can represent.

For me, FSX draws reality with zoom at 0.30. That's the reason i used to set zoom at 0.30 and set the seat after, and then the "balls" don't fit correctly in the 320X (beware, without any seat settings, the simple view at 0.30 is also totally unrealistic !).

Cheers.;)

zoomx0.8.jpg

real.jpg

zoomx0.3.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Erick F-B-W
On 04/09/2016 at 0:37 PM, NormanSBowman said:

As it is a simulation and working within the bounds of FSX/P3D it is up to us to find our ideal flying position working with the tools which we are given.Real World simulators have adjustable seats fitted to cope with our varying sizes too.I would be very surprised if any operators SOP advised hat the pilot must fly with the sight balls aligned as Lapinou suggests .

Norman  

Extract from the Airbus  Flight Operations Support & Line Assistance,  STL 472.3494/95 Issue 3 October 2001

"Additional information on pilot's eye position : The pilots must realize the importance of eye position specially during low visibility approaches and landing. A too-low seat adjustment may greatly reduce the visual segment. When the eye reference position is lower than intended, the already short visual segment is further reduced by the cut-off angle of the glareshield or nose. Airbus aircraft are equipped with an eye position indicating device. The optimum eye position is obtained when the pilot sees the red indicator ball covering the white ball." 

Share this post


Link to post
Alfredo Terrero
57 minutes ago, Lapinou said:

Ok, thanks for the help ! Just a question : in your fsx.cfg, is it with WideViewAspect =1 or 0 ?

I will try it ASAP. But, IMO the high value of zoom produces an unrealistic landscape and slows down its scrolling. It can fix the "balls" problem, but there's another problem then...

Let me explain : just have a look below : this is the same landscape at the same altitude, taken from a real microlight in the middle (real photo), then FSX image capture with zoom at 0.30 (down) and, last, FSX image capture with zoom at 0.80 (up). WideViewAspect=0. Look at the lake and the moutains surroundings. Basically, proportions are not respected at 0.80, valley is smaller at 0.80 but wider at 0.30 (majestically as it is in the real life). Logically, scrolling will also be slower because you magnified the image first. For being myself in the "real right seat" very often, i certainly feel that the central picture is the most realistic FSX can represent.

For me, FSX draws reality with zoom at 0.30. That's the reason i used to set zoom at 0.30 and set the seat after, and then the "balls" don't fit correctly in the 320X (beware, without any seat settings, the simple view at 0.30 is also totally unrealistic !).

Cheers.;)

zoomx0.8.jpg

real.jpg

zoomx0.3.jpg

If you have a wide screen monitor, then the most realistic view in fsx will be attained with wideviewaspect=1 (or true can't remember) and zoom at 1.0. Anything besides that and fsx simply distorts the outside view (it was designed for 1.0) and gives you strange effects. For your real life picture, what was the zoom on the camera? Cameras can also produce the same distortions effects that fsx can when you aren't at zoom 1.0.

now, just because you're at zoom 1.0 doesn't mean you will be able to see both the ecams and nd's AND the seat alignment circles. If you notice, in the video, the person explains that with zoom 1.0, the only way to see the full cockpit as one would in real life is to have more monitors or have an extremely high resolution monitor. Unfortunately, in fsx, we must choose either a realistic outside view (1.0) or being able to see all our instruments on the inside (unless we have multiple monitors to spare). I personally like to zoom to 1.0, and move my eye point back so that I can have a reasonable view of the pfd, nd, and upper engine display without having the strange fish eye effects which occur if you zoom out.

Share this post


Link to post
Norman S Bowman

Hi,

The Airbus document is a recommendation  only and points out that it is useful in low visibility operations.This is not the same as an airline SOP.

If you take twenty pilots of differing heights you will find that some will use the balls however most will have a preferred seating position which suits their own individual needs.

Unlike looking out of a RW aircraft we are looking out of a skilfully crafted model using a computer screen or screens with distortions caused by our own monitor settings and eyepoint.

My advice would be to find a position which meets your needs and get on with flying this great aircraft.

 

Norman

Share this post


Link to post
NilsUnger
4 hours ago, Lapinou said:

Ok, thanks for the help ! Just a question : in your fsx.cfg, is it with WideViewAspect =1 or 0 ?

Hi, it is set to WideViewAspect = True.

The real image you posted seems (to my untrained eyes) zoomed out. I see no negativ effect running my sim with 0.9 or 1.0 zoom level. You have to move your view around more often, that is true. But real pilots have to do that as well and I have my joystick HAT, which makes it easy and intuitive.

16 minutes ago, NormanSBowman said:

My advice would be to find a position which meets your needs and get on with flying this great aircraft.

Amen to that. Happy flying folks!

Share this post


Link to post
Magnus Meese

Try shifting left instead of (or together with) forwards to allign the balls. I had the same thoughts as you when I first started flying the FSLbus, but I also liked my position laterally, so now I just shift+enter one notch up, then step forward a few times, not longer than that I still can read all the text on the top of the central MIP.

On a sidenote, I don't like the default initialxyz in the Concorde either, have to move both forward and up quite a bit. Seems the FSLabs crew has got a more laid-back position in their captain's seat B)

Share this post


Link to post
Erick F-B-W
On 05/09/2016 at 9:55 PM, NormanSBowman said:

Hi,

The Airbus document is a recommendation  only and points out that it is useful in low visibility operations.This is not the same as an airline SOP.

If you take twenty pilots of differing heights you will find that some will use the balls however most will have a preferred seating position which suits their own individual needs.

Unlike looking out of a RW aircraft we are looking out of a skilfully crafted model using a computer screen or screens with distortions caused by our own monitor settings and eyepoint.

My advice would be to find a position which meets your needs and get on with flying this great aircraft.

Norman

Sure but i never said setting balls was on an SOP... but sry you can't manage a plane only with SOP, it's a nonsense (it's another discussion too...). You reduces things when they need to be enlarged. Security is a global concept which includes manufacturer advises. And so it's not an excuse to create something unreal if it's technically possible (already said PMDG does it very well) : this would be "the position which would meet my needs"  (Keep a safe angle of view)...^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Erick F-B-W
On 06/09/2016 at 3:10 AM, Meese said:

Try shifting left instead of (or together with) forwards to allign the balls. I had the same thoughts as you when I first started flying the FSLbus, but I also liked my position laterally, so now I just shift+enter one notch up, then step forward a few times, not longer than that I still can read all the text on the top of the central MIP.

On a sidenote, I don't like the default initialxyz in the Concorde either, have to move both forward and up quite a bit. Seems the FSLabs crew has got a more laid-back position in their captain's seat B)

OK i will try your method ASAP. Thx !;)

Share this post


Link to post
Erick F-B-W

Followed your corrections m8s : below is the best i can do with Zoom at 1.00, WideView=True and seat adjusts (3 notches fwd, one down).

Only two of the balls lined up & screens still visible. Not really truly perfect but more "approaching minimums" :lol:...

Anyway, thks for the help. ;)

 

CaptureBus3.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Alfredo Terrero
3 hours ago, Lapinou said:

Followed your corrections m8s : below is the best i can do with Zoom at 1.00, WideView=True and seat adjusts (3 notches fwd, one down).

Only two of the balls lined up & screens still visible. Not really truly perfect but more "approaching minimums" :lol:...

Anyway, thks for the help. ;)

 

CaptureBus3.JPG

Have you tried moving your eye point to the left? I've noticed the default eye point in the FSLabs is too much to the right (look down at your seat and you will see what I mean).

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Magnus Meese

You're only supposed to use the far white ball, the close one is for the F/O, so all is well. I see the same alignment when I've "taken my seat"

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Erick F-B-W

No... you're supposed to align balls so that one red and one white remain visible. The third one -far- must disappear behind the red one...^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Magnus Meese

Yes, like I said :) You wrote "only two of the balls lined up", which I interpreted as you being dissatisfied with the result, hence my reply.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Erick F-B-W
On 19/09/2016 at 10:27 PM, kjjj11223344 said:

Have you tried moving your eye point to the left? I've noticed the default eye point in the FSLabs is too much to the right (look down at your seat and you will see what I mean).

It looks almost fine now, (even if we can even see a very small part of the far white ball, but it's much better than before...). You were right : six or seven notches to the left (never done that before in FSX !). And when the camera is looking down at your own seat, yes you're right, you're "naturally" nearly seating on the armrest (too much on the right) !!... Same thing for the F-O seat (too much on the left).  So i can finally "buckle it up" now ! :lol:... Thx m8 ! ;)

Capturebus4.JPG

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

×
×
  • Create New...