Aircraft Behaviour in bad Wx with ASN / AS16

[kterz]

Hi all,

Updraft/downdraft implementation in Active sky is based on the following triggering conditions:

- Terrain/winds (in contrast to what is assumed in a previous post)

- Thermal generation (based on temperature, time of day, season and of course surface type)

- Atmosphere instability due to convective activity (including flying close/into CBs)

- Windhsear/Microburst events

 

Now, the first 2 can be reduced by reducing the related options, but not the 3rd and 4th one. You can see the applied air vertical speed in AS16 debug window (in a second monitor or if you run in a network). Based on all that during A320x beta testing we decided to recommend lowering the up/downdraft settings in ASN (btw with AS16 this is not needed, as we automatically adjust it based on the aircraft type now). The main (but not the only) reason we did this was to troubleshoot any AP disconnect events (this way isolating them to a fault in the aircraft itself back then).

An example of atmosphere instability is evident in the video linked previously. The PF in this case went directly into the "reds". In reality flying close to a CB (less than 20 miles margin) is definitely avoided, because updraft/downdraft events up to 10000 feet/min may be encountered. With AS16 we apply up to a maximum of 2-3000 ft/min intentionally trying to destabilize the aircraft and try to make it lose control. If for whatever reason you want to fly into a CB and continue your path/approach, you can uncheck the "Realistic thunderstorm up/downdraft" option in AS16 settings. This however will make the radar just render some nice eye candy colorful images <g>

As for the Microburst/Windshear, I'm sorry you can't disable it. If you get a PWS warning during approach, you actually have to go around. Otherwise, no reason to use Active sky at all.

Now, another confusion has to do with the recommended turbulence settings in AS16 and this clearly has to do with the misinterpretation of what each setting does. The ONLY relevant option that you may want to (optionally) lower is the "Turbulence scale" option. This is recommended to go  back to 30-35 as it's the only one having any effect on the aircraft. All the other (Cloud turbulence, Wind turbulence etc) are related to how often you get turbulence in the sim and these should be on user to decide and should not be part of an aircraft specific recommendation "set". I personally fly with AS16 with everything set to default (Turb scale 70, Cloud/Wind=100) mainly for testing and never had any issue with AP disconnect events.

 

So in conclusion these are my recommended Active Sky settings:

1) ASN:

- Turb scale=35, Up/down drafts 0

 

2) AS16:

- Turb scale=35, "Realistic thunderstorm drafts"=on (or off if you don't know how the radar works)

 

 

[Max H]

Thank you once again for your enlightenment! 

Thats what i am doing! Default settings and turb scale at 50!

Max

[O_l_i_v_e_rM_a_e_r_t_e_n_s]

On ‎02‎.‎09‎.‎2016 at 11:39 PM, kterz said:

(...)

As for the Microburst/Windshear, I'm sorry you can't disable it. If you get a PWS warning during approach, you actually have to go around. Otherwise, no reason to use Active sky at all.

(...)

2) AS16:

- Turb scale=35, "Realistic thunderstorm drafts"=on (or off if you don't know how the radar works)

 

Thank you, Kostas. Adjusted.

 

The headwind portion of this thing hit me right during the flare!!  

[Chirag Geiantilal]

What I've done:

Set Realism Mode

Set Turb Scale to 35

And leave Realist Thunderstorm Drafts ON.

Haven't tested (AS16), but will report if everything is OK.

[Alek21]

Hi,

I also set realism mode in AS16 and turb scale to 30. It was definitely impossible to fly in bad weather even when flying out of the green area. The A/P diconnected  followed sometimes by  a big dive or climb. the trim was also stuck at full down or up position.

So for now I unticked realist thunderstorm and set max wind turbulence to 20. It seems to be ok. 

I saw some real videos where we see airbuses  flying in the green/yellow area of the Wx radar without experiencing A/P discs or full trim movements. In addition, i think the behavior of the aircraft in bad weather isn't ok. The plane has difficulties to hold path and speed in Op climb mode.

I hope that there will be improvements of the flight model in turbulent conditions in a future SP.

Alek

 

[Jose Luis]

Thanks Kostas for clue.

[Henrik Nitzsche]

What is the red color around the runway and what are these two brown lines on the ND. Never seen that before.

 

[Capt Alan]

20 minutes ago, Henni said:

What is the red color around the runway and what are these two brown lines on the ND. Never seen that before.

 

That's the windshear alert.

[ryancoke]

I took off out of KLGA last night and just after take off was just about thrown on my back. Have recommended settings set

[Neil Warren]

Guys, I've just departed Vienna and had some chop straight after takeoff, very bumpy, this drew my attention to the fact that i had forgotten to turn on weather radar :(. Which i promptly did, saw some red and yellow and used heading select to avoid the worst of it, this is just superb. It now adds major realism to weather avoidance. It made me actually plan where i thought i could go and where i had to avoid. I quickly climbed above it and did a direct to to get back on track. What an amazing job they have done on this airplane, and it's only going to get better. 

My advice is to figure out what weather settings are too extreme, but lets be honest and should we really be flying into red cells and expect nothing bad to happen?

 

Fly safe and have fun.

Cheers

Neil

 

[Max H]

18 hours ago, Alek21 said:

Hi,

I also set realism mode in AS16 and turb scale to 30. It was definitely impossible to fly in bad weather even when flying out of the green area. The A/P diconnected  followed sometimes by  a big dive or climb. the trim was also stuck at full down or up position.

So for now I unticked realist thunderstorm and set max wind turbulence to 20. It seems to be ok. 

I saw some real videos where we see airbuses  flying in the green/yellow area of the Wx radar without experiencing A/P discs or full trim movements. In addition, i think the behavior of the aircraft in bad weather isn't ok. The plane has difficulties to hold path and speed in Op climb mode.

I hope that there will be improvements of the flight model in turbulent conditions in a future SP.

Alek

 

Yes the plane is shaking wild and looks not real to me, also with turb scale down to 30! I hope also some improvements in a furure sp!

[Alek21]

Hi,

After some tests, i had found a good compromise with AS16. 

My settings: realist thunderstorm unticked, max wind turbulences 20, turbulence scale 30.

With these settings, i can enjoy flying in bad weather without having A/P diconnect and weird behavior(And no i don't fly in red areas:-)) but having more real turbulences effects.

Hope this will help for peoples in the same situations than me;-).

Alek

[Troy Krajancic]

Just thought I'd point out that the FSLabs A320-X FAQ recommends these settings for the most realistic experience (as reported by test pilots I believe?).

 

Q: I am using AS16 Weather with the A320-X and I am getting erratic turbulence behavior.

 

A: Set these options in AS16:
1. Maximum Cloud Turbulence Scale 20
2. Maximum Wind Turbulence Scale 20
3. Turbulence Scale Effect 10

[Zachlw]

On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 10:46 AM, Alek21 said:

Hi,

After some tests, i had found a good compromise with AS16. 

My settings: realist thunderstorm unticked, max wind turbulences 20, turbulence scale 30.

With these settings, i can enjoy flying in bad weather without having A/P diconnect and weird behavior(And no i don't fly in red areas:-)) but having more real turbulences effects.

Hope this will help for peoples in the same situations than me;-).

Alek

Airliners don't generally fly into bad weather. They go around it.

[Kevin Hall]

5 hours ago, Zachlw said:

Airliners don't generally fly into bad weather. They go around it.

Yes but the main point is that FSX cannot cope with high turbulence levels. It does unrealistic things. So you need to scale it back. This is true for all addons, not just the A320X. 

[Zachlw]

5 hours ago, kevinh said:

Yes but the main point is that FSX cannot cope with high turbulence levels. It does unrealistic things. So you need to scale it back. This is true for all addons, not just the A320X. 

Got it Kevin, and I agree.  The turbulence scalar is a must have tweak for all advanced add ons.  My comment is more directed at disabling the AS storm turbulence.  If you're missing the visible CBs in sim, your missing AS's thunderstorms.  That is the point of using AS16 and ASCA for me this time of year.  Happy Flying!

 

[lantirn]

So, finally what are the recommended settings?

[Wayne Klockner]

1 hour ago, lantirn said:

So, finally what are the recommended settings?

Speaking for myself, I'm using the settings recommended at the top of this thread, particularly given that the OP is the developer of the ActiveSky weather engines and is a beta tester for the FSL A320. More to the point, those settings work for me, so long as I don't do something stupid, such as fly my lovely FSL A320 right into a thunderstorm or ignore wind shear warnings....

As for the other posts in this thread, the differences to the OP's recommended settings represent personal preferences.

[lantirn]

On 30 Σεπτεμβρίου 2016 at 10:04 PM, RudiJG1 said:

Speaking for myself, I'm using the settings recommended at the top of this thread, particularly given that the OP is the developer of the ActiveSky weather engines and is a beta tester for the FSL A320. More to the point, those settings work for me, so long as I don't do something stupid, such as fly my lovely FSL A320 right into a thunderstorm or ignore wind shear warnings....

As for the other posts in this thread, the differences to the OP's recommended settings represent personal preferences.

Great...thanks!

[NilsUnger]

I have been close to thunderstorms several times and so far have not experienced any unexpected behavior. Moreover, I had not a single instance where the autopilot disengaged. Very robust so far! 

[Gregory Bally]

Are there any recommended settings on Ezdok because i wonder if there are no conflict with AS2016 as I don't se my VC moving that much passsing through green/orange areas...

[Mario Cascella]

On 2/9/2016 at 11:39 PM, kterz said:

Hi all,

Updraft/downdraft implementation in Active sky is based on the following triggering conditions:

- Terrain/winds (in contrast to what is assumed in a previous post)

- Thermal generation (based on temperature, time of day, season and of course surface type)

- Atmosphere instability due to convective activity (including flying close/into CBs)

- Windhsear/Microburst events

 

Now, the first 2 can be reduced by reducing the related options, but not the 3rd and 4th one. You can see the applied air vertical speed in AS16 debug window (in a second monitor or if you run in a network). Based on all that during A320x beta testing we decided to recommend lowering the up/downdraft settings in ASN (btw with AS16 this is not needed, as we automatically adjust it based on the aircraft type now). The main (but not the only) reason we did this was to troubleshoot any AP disconnect events (this way isolating them to a fault in the aircraft itself back then).

An example of atmosphere instability is evident in the video linked previously. The PF in this case went directly into the "reds". In reality flying close to a CB (less than 20 miles margin) is definitely avoided, because updraft/downdraft events up to 10000 feet/min may be encountered. With AS16 we apply up to a maximum of 2-3000 ft/min intentionally trying to destabilize the aircraft and try to make it lose control. If for whatever reason you want to fly into a CB and continue your path/approach, you can uncheck the "Realistic thunderstorm up/downdraft" option in AS16 settings. This however will make the radar just render some nice eye candy colorful images <g>

As for the Microburst/Windshear, I'm sorry you can't disable it. If you get a PWS warning during approach, you actually have to go around. Otherwise, no reason to use Active sky at all.

Now, another confusion has to do with the recommended turbulence settings in AS16 and this clearly has to do with the misinterpretation of what each setting does. The ONLY relevant option that you may want to (optionally) lower is the "Turbulence scale" option. This is recommended to go  back to 30-35 as it's the only one having any effect on the aircraft. All the other (Cloud turbulence, Wind turbulence etc) are related to how often you get turbulence in the sim and these should be on user to decide and should not be part of an aircraft specific recommendation "set". I personally fly with AS16 with everything set to default (Turb scale 70, Cloud/Wind=100) mainly for testing and never had any issue with AP disconnect events.

 

So in conclusion these are my recommended Active Sky settings:

1) ASN:

- Turb scale=35, Up/down drafts 0

 

2) AS16:

- Turb scale=35, "Realistic thunderstorm drafts"=on (or off if you don't know how the radar works)

 

 

thus prevent thunderstorms When CB reported must put the check or leave the default?

[Chirag Geiantilal]

Hi,

Guys I've got a problem into heavy turbulence with OP recommended definitions.

AP is always disengaging.

It happened to me yesterday in 2 flights.

On last flight the AP disengaged and the A320-X started to descend at a rate of minus 9999ft/m or more.

I'm using AS2016.

[Alexander Luzajic]

Ever since I installed ASN and used their recommended settings I did not experience any problem with any add on. At one point I didn't even used ASN because I was thinking that I had OOM because of it....But nope, turned on after some time, flew on DX9 for a month, adjusted .cfg a bit (that is reverting back anyway by itself, how and why I don't know), installed A320X and got warning that I need to tick DX10?! I did and so far so good......