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concorde Attitude Indicator unresponsive???


Fredric Greenblott

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Fredric Greenblott

Hey,

This is my first post on the forum. I downloaded Concorde X yesterday for FSX Steam edition, and everything works great and I love it so far, but the main attitude indicator is unresponsive and will not go up or down. It only stays level and only moves when you hit the "test" button. The backup attitude indicator works just fine, though. What could be wrong and how do I fix it?

 

Thanks!

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Fraser Gale

Are you experienced in flying Concorde may I ask?

have you followed the tutorial?

are ALL other instruments working?

It sounds to me like you haven't got the INS systems aligned and stable...?

Frazz

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Fredric Greenblott
2 minutes ago, Frazz said:

Are you experienced in flying Concorde may I ask?

have you followed the tutorial?

are ALL other instruments working?

It sounds to me like you haven't got the INS systems aligned and stable...?

Frazz

I've flown a freeware Concorde many times, I've studied a LOT about Concorde, and I am reading the tutorial. And yes, all other instruments are working. I'll see if I can align the INS.

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Jonathan Fong

Freeware Concordes can barely prepare you for the FSLabs one. Trust me, I flew them before.

It sounds like you haven't aligned your INSs. Press Ctrl+I to do so during your preflight.

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Fredric Greenblott

UPDATE: I aligned my INS's, tested the ADI, The ADI works! Thanks. But another problem is that whenever I get past about 400 knots, this annoying, pulsing alarm sounds about every second and I don't know what it is. What is this alarm? 

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Ray Proudfoot

That's the overspeed warning. You cannot exceed vMo shown by the barber's pole on the Airspeed Indicator.

More time required with the tutorial me thinks. ;)

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Fredric Greenblott
8 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

That's the overspeed warning. You cannot exceed vMo shown by the barber's pole on the Airspeed Indicator.

More time required with the tutorial me thinks. ;)

The overspeed shouldn't be sounding at subsonic speeds. It starts sounding at mach 0.5 (400 knots, and I am above 10,000 feet), nose and visor up. The vMo for the Concorde was Mach 2.05, unless I'm missing something. I'll read the PDF's a little more and see what I can find.

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Jonathan Fong

VMO varies based on speed. It's around 400kts for much of the initial climb, before increasing to around 450kts by the time you reach Mach 1 (FL300-ish) and finally going up to about 550kts during cruise. I HIGHLY suggest you run through the tutorial and read the manual. They'll help you understand Concorde X.

 

P/S: I've taken Concorde above M2.05 without the VMO warning sounding, so that most certainly is NOT the hard limit of the aircraft.

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Fredric Greenblott
1 hour ago, fcisuperguy said:

VMO varies based on speed. It's around 400kts for much of the initial climb, before increasing to around 450kts by the time you reach Mach 1 (FL300-ish) and finally going up to about 550kts during cruise. I HIGHLY suggest you run through the tutorial and read the manual. They'll help you understand Concorde X.

 

P/S: I've taken Concorde above M2.05 without the VMO warning sounding, so that most certainly is NOT the hard limit of the aircraft.

The real Concorde COULD stay together beyond Mach 2.05 but the temperatures on the skin of the plane at beyond that speed would weaken the aluminum skin of the plane far more than usual and was not recommended by BAe... It wouldn't disintegrate, but it'd probably have to get serviced/repaired or get a D Check earlier than usual. I still wouldn't recommend going past Mach 2.05. On Concorde X, I usually level out at FL570 and cruise at Mach 2.02. I'll read the manual and tutorials more. Thanks again for your help. 

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Jonathan Fong

It really depends on the weather conditions. If the OAT is much colder than usual, Concorde can fly higher and faster than normal. That sort of weather conditions plus me forgetting to turn on the autothrottle resulted in me hitting M2.07 at FL600 without reaching the max skin temp of 127 degrees Celsius once on a short flight from BIKF to EGLL.

 

TL;DR: Lots of things can affect the skin temp, but as long as the skin temp is lower than 127 degrees Celsius, you're fine.

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Fraser Gale

2.04 is the maximum in service Mach number permitted rather than VMO when in the cruise. In test they took her up to something like 2.24 Mach so she would certainly not "disintegrate" but she was limited to 2.04 to keep the skin temperature at or below 127 degrees C, which was to preserve the fatigue life of the airframe. 

Frazz

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Ray Proudfoot
5 hours ago, FredricG said:

The overspeed shouldn't be sounding at subsonic speeds. It starts sounding at mach 0.5 (400 knots, and I am above 10,000 feet), nose and visor up. The vMo for the Concorde was Mach 2.05, unless I'm missing something. I'll read the PDF's a little more and see what I can find.

Frederic. That statement is completely wrong. vMo is altitude dependent. Sub-sonic (up to FL320 or thereabouts) it is 400kts but as you climb towards FL600 you'll notice it increases to around a maximum of 530kts. That's indicated of course, not ground speed. Once supersonic you should use Mach, not IAS as the latter becomes increasingly inaccurate.

You didn't say what your altitude was when the overspeed warning came on. On the EGLL-KJFK route you would level out at FL260 / 395kts IAS / Mach 0.95 until you reach the Accel point. Thereafter the climb rate and IAS need to be linked to ensure vMo is not exceeded. The best way to achieve that is to select MAX CLB with auto-throttles off. But all this is in the tutorial.

For your info the pre-production Concordes often exceeded Mach 2. I believe the maximum speed reached was M2.2 but that was for testing only. Also, you should not level off at FL570 but continue towards FL600 until you needed to start the descent procedure. Again, it's all in the tutorial.

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Fredric Greenblott
7 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Frederic. That statement is completely wrong. vMo is altitude dependent. Sub-sonic (up to FL320 or thereabouts) it is 400kts but as you climb towards FL600 you'll notice it increases to around a maximum of 530kts. That's indicated of course, not ground speed. Once supersonic you should use Mach, not IAS as the latter becomes increasingly inaccurate.

You didn't say what your altitude was when the overspeed warning came on. On the EGLL-KJFK route you would level out at FL260 / 395kts IAS / Mach 0.95 until you reach the Accel point. Thereafter the climb rate and IAS need to be linked to ensure vMo is not exceeded. The best way to achieve that is to select MAX CLB with auto-throttles off. But all this is in the tutorial.

For your info the pre-production Concordes often exceeded Mach 2. I believe the maximum speed reached was M2.2 but that was for testing only. Also, you should not level off at FL570 but continue towards FL600 until you needed to start the descent procedure. Again, it's all in the tutorial.

Well then. I feel really stupid now XD. Sorry for wasting your time, I should have just read the tutorial.  

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Ray Proudfoot
3 hours ago, FredricG said:

Well then. I feel really stupid now XD. Sorry for wasting your time, I should have just read the tutorial.  

It wasn't my intention to make you feel stupid. If I did I apologise. I learned everything about how to fly Concorde from the tutorial so it will be time well invested. This is one aircraft that you certainly can't just jump in and fly. The tutorial is essential.

Feel free to ask if you're not sure of anything.

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Lefteris Kalamaras
3 hours ago, FredricG said:

Well then. I feel really stupid now XD. Sorry for wasting your time, I should have just read the tutorial.  

Fredric-

you should not feel stupid for asking a question. However, it is considered bad etiquette to ask questions that are indeed answered in the tutorial - perhaps not the first time, but certainly after someone has actually pointed you towards the tutorial. Not taking the time to do so, but instead trying to use a shortcut by asking again and again is going to only hurt your enjoyment levels in the long run (never mind Ray's patience for answering - it's his choice for trying to be helpful in the first place). Also, keep in mind that someone (in fact, someone and also his proof-readers) spent a very long time ensuring that the tutorial covers essential elements of Concorde flying to allow exactly this: To make it easier for you (and all other newcomers to this wonderful hobby) to learn to fly an aircraft that, in the real world, took over six months of training - for people who were the cream of the crop in their respective airlines to begin with.

So... a little reading will go a long way. Trust us :).

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Fredric Greenblott
41 minutes ago, Lefteris Kalamaras said:

Fredric-

you should not feel stupid for asking a question. However, it is considered bad etiquette to ask questions that are indeed answered in the tutorial - perhaps not the first time, but certainly after someone has actually pointed you towards the tutorial. Not taking the time to do so, but instead trying to use a shortcut by asking again and again is going to only hurt your enjoyment levels in the long run (never mind Ray's patience for answering - it's his choice for trying to be helpful in the first place). Also, keep in mind that someone (in fact, someone and also his proof-readers) spent a very long time ensuring that the tutorial covers essential elements of Concorde flying to allow exactly this: To make it easier for you (and all other newcomers to this wonderful hobby) to learn to fly an aircraft that, in the real world, took over six months of training - for people who were the cream of the crop in their respective airlines to begin with.

So... a little reading will go a long way. Trust us :).

I understand. I thank Ray for being patient when answering. But the real reason I feel stupid is because I researched the Concorde for several months beforehand up until I got Concorde X, so I knew about its specs, most of the procedures, commands, V-speeds, checks and main panel switches before I got it. When I did get it, I thought it would be easier considering I thought I knew what I was doing... The key word being "thought". When I actually started flying it, it seemed easy at first but I realized it was much, MUCH more complicated than what I had researched. I've set aside time to thoroughly read the tutorial... It will help me know precisely know what to do, and it doesn't seem like an overly complicated read. 

 

Thanks for setting me on the right path... See you again at 60,000 feet!

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Ray Proudfoot

Good reply Fredric. ;) I printed the tutorial and took it into the garden a couple of summers ago so I could take my time and learn it properly.

There's no doubting it's a complex aircraft but repeated flights do make it much easier to understand. In recent weeks I've even started handling fuel myself which is something I could never have contemplated even 6 months ago.

I'm guessing you're an American after your spelling of aluminium. Please remember they're reheats, not afterburners! :D

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Fraser Gale

I think it must depend where you start from with this aircraft as well. In other words, some people fly FSX/P3d and gradually work up the aircraft "ranks", others may well just want to fly Concorde. I think I was a bit of both but, like many of the real crews, once you get Concorde under your belt and enjoy flying her, who would want to fly anything else haha?!

It will take a long time Fredric, but you will get there! 

Read the tutorial first, from what people are saying at least twice, then fly some Atlantic trips with the virtual flight engineer dealing with all the technical stuff, then if you get stuck search the forums. If all that fails to help, or you want some more detail, ask on here.

I'm sure there are many of us that will try to help as best we can.

ps. I must confess that I've only partly read the tutorial as I am exceedingly lucky to have real documentation from the old days but from what I read, if you follow it step by step, it will get you to New York!

Frazz

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Fredric Greenblott
1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Good reply Fredric. ;) I printed the tutorial and took it into the garden a couple of summers ago so I could take my time and learn it properly.

There's no doubting it's a complex aircraft but repeated flights do make it much easier to understand. In recent weeks I've even started handling fuel myself which is something I could never have contemplated even 6 months ago.

I'm guessing you're an American after your spelling of aluminium. Please remember they're reheats, not afterburners! :D

Yes, I am American haha;). And yes, they are reheats but I can't stop myself saying "afterburner" most of the time... And isn't it a coincidence that my love of aviation was kindled by seeing the Concorde? Way back on June 3, 2003, when I was 3 and a half, my grandpa took me to JFK International to planespot with him (He still has that video on a VHS tape with the date stamp on it... I watch it from time to time^_^). My gosh I looked so innocent and cute back then. There was a Northwest DC-9 landing there, and I didn't seem too impressed, but then he zoomed in on the daily BAW001 Concorde on its short final. I actually said this when I saw it, "Grandpa, that isn't a plane! It looks silly!" :D hahaha... I must have been confused seeing the droop nose and the delta ogee wing... And the rest is history, I guess!

 

Well, off to reading the tutorial. Thanks again for your help! Sorry if my story is too long XD.

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Ray Proudfoot

Hi Fredric,

Shows how wrong I can be. I was convinced you were older. Around 50 years older than your tender age of 17. :D

Concorde did tend to have that affect on people. So different to any other aircraft it's bound to turn heads. I feel proud every time I watch videos of her. I feel even prouder when I hear foreigners compliment her. :)

That's a nice story. Sounds like you're hooked.

The definitive source for Concorde is the double-DVD that many of us have. You can buy it here. Highly recommended. https://www.itvv.com/Civil-Aviation-DVD/British-Airways-Concorde-DVD/Concorde-Flight-Deck-Experience.html

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Fraser Gale
47 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

 

The definitive source for Concorde is the double-DVD that many of us have. You can buy it here. Highly recommended. https://www.itvv.com/Civil-Aviation-DVD/British-Airways-Concorde-DVD/Concorde-Flight-Deck-Experience.html

I second this, in fact you will probably learn to fly her a lot quicker by watching this over and over - which I bet you end up doing anyway! 

By the way, it's also a good idea to spend some time doing "circuits and bumps" at an airfield of you choosing to give you landing practise, as she can be interesting to land on a dark rainy night :-S

Frazz

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Fredric Greenblott
1 hour ago, Frazz said:

I second this, in fact you will probably learn to fly her a lot quicker by watching this over and over - which I bet you end up doing anyway! 

By the way, it's also a good idea to spend some time doing "circuits and bumps" at an airfield of you choosing to give you landing practise, as she can be interesting to land on a dark rainy night :-S

Frazz

Good idea. I have REX 4 and FTX Global Vector installed, so it should make for a cool experience landing at night through the rain. However I'd have to raise the seat on Concorde X so I can see the runway (Even with the nose in landing position, Concorde's excessive flare on final approach doesn't allow me to see what's directly in front of me.). But That's an easy fix. I'll be sure to get some landing practice in for sure! ^_^

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Fraser Gale

You will need the seat in a high position as you say but also remember you want to look at the far end of the runway, especially at night. If you don't, there is a tendency to pitch the nose down leading to a rather bumpy landing. And whatever you do, remember there is no real flare on landing - the attitude is kept constant at 11 degrees and you should have to pull back as you close the throttles SLOWLY at 15ft only to keep the attitude constant. 

If you pull back and the nose comes up, expect a sudden dump of lift leading to a drop to the ground, followed by contact of the tail wheel and reverse buckets! 

Some of the above isn't simulated to the degree of it being real world (in my opinion from what I have read and having flown the real sim) but I think it's a simulator issue rather than Concorde X as it's almost like ground effect doesn't exist in FSX.

Frazz

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Ray Proudfoot

With regard to the viewing position when landing (or taxiing) I use a very handy utility - SimpleCam by the author of EFB (another brilliant utility). It gives you up to 9 view positions at the touch of a key and is a bargain at the princely sum of 9.9 Swiss Francs. http://www.aivlasoft.com/74.html

I use position 4 for the standard view and 1 for a raised view ideal for landing.

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