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Nephi

Happy User Of Cpflight's Mcp And Fslabs Driver ?

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Nephi

Hi all,

If you own Cpflight's MCP, fly PMDG's 747X on FSX with FslLabs's driver, and you experience no problem then we need your help !! :)

Some of us experience stutters and micro-pauses that make using the MCP+driver almost impossible, which is a shame considering the price we've paid it. Therefore if you can take 2 minutes of your time to answer to following questions, it might help us find a solution. So we really need you here :)

1) which version of FSX do you run ? (RTM, SP1, SP2, Acceleration)

2) Which OS do you run (windows XP, vista, Seven, another ? 32bits ? 64 bits) ?

3) did you install FSX in the default directory of did you create your own ?

4) did you install FSX as administrator ?

5) did you install the driver as administrator ?

6) Do you use an antivirus ? if yes which one ?

7) Could you give a brief summary of your setup (CPU, mobo, RAM, GPU, rotation speed of your harddrives, or ssd if you have..)

8) Do you have other addons (fsuipc, which version,...) ?

9) any other ideas or relevant comments are welcome :)

On the other hand if some of you DO have stutters or micro-pauses as well, don't hesitate to mention it here and answer the questions. That way we'll be able to estimate which proportion has problems and which hasn't and maybe we'll be able to see an emerging pattern that will help solve the problem.

If you experience stutters/micro-pauses with another Fslabs driver and product (engravity CDU...) then please answer as well. All info we'll help !

Thanks and merry Holiday, however you celebrate it, to all

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Lefteris Kalamaras

Nephi,

just to give you some more feedback over this matter:

Our support team has been in contact with you regarding this, however I would kindly ask you not to expect a quick reply as it's the holiday season and things are running a bit slower than normal with people attending to their family needs. We'll try to help you out as soon as possible.

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Nephi

Hi Jon,

thanks for your input. Let's hope the "holiday" season will not be too long. It was not for me anyway as I'm already back to work. Concerning the issue at hand : can you describe a little bit more yoru setup (for example the questions in my first post) ? So that we can compare and see if any pattern emerges.

Thanks and Happy new year to all !!!

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KingCat

The answers to the questions:

1. FSX with Acceleration.

2. Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit.

3. Own directory (C:\FSX\).

4. Yes.

5. Yes.

6. Yes (ESET Smart Security Suite).

7. Intel i7 980X (not overclocked), Asus P6T Deluxe V2, 6GB RAM 1.066 Mhz., GigaByte NVidia GeForce GTX 285 1GB, 3 harddisks (7.200 rpm).

8. Lots of them, too much to mention here (using latest version of FSUIPC).

9. Maybe suggest that FlightSimLabs and PMDG solve this issue, instead of the customers?

Jon

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Nephi

Hi Jon,

thanks for the reply. I realise I haven't answered the questions myself :

1. FSX with Acceleration.

2. Windows 7 Pro 64-bit.

3. Own directory on anotherr HD than system (D:\FSX\).

4. Yes.

5. Yes.

6. Yes (AVG free 2011).

7. Intel i7 920 (overclocked to 4.1GHz), Asus Rampage 2 Extreme, 6GB RAM 1.600 Mhz., eVGA NVidia GeForce GTX 285 1GB, 3 harddisks (7.200 rpm).

8. Lots of them, too much to mention here (using latest version of FSUIPC).

9. Couldn't agree more

but we still haven't heard of anybody using the driver WITHOUT any problems ? It would really be interesting to see their specs to have an idea of what works well and where we could start looking. And they're supposed to be the vast majority from what I've been told...

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Nephi

A little up ? Is there nowhere anybody who uses this driver without any problem ? I thought they were supposed to be the vast majority ?

As for FsLabs :

Still on holidays ? Waow...

Oh and by the way, I sent two emails to your support in the last two weaks and didn't even get a polite answer to say "sorry we cannot answer you right now because we are still on vacation/on leave/busy on more urgent things/busy making money... (choose the correct answer). Not to mention a real answer to the problem at hand.

So no answer here, no answer by email (which is the basics of customer relationship)... for a company that boast "We at Flight Sim Labs strongly believe that USER SUPPORT is what makes or breaks a company. So we are dedicated to helping you in various ways" on its front page <_<

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Lefteris Kalamaras

Dear Nephi,

I am not sure if your irony makes sense here.

As for your emails - I can confirm we have not received any to our support line.

We understand you might be frustrated with what you perceive as our misgivings. I explained even awhile back that our developers are very very busy working on the new projects and looking at individual issues that happen only to a few people is something that will happen, but perhaps at a much later time. Regarding "making money" - I personally take offense at this statement: You had EVERY opportunity to fully test the product 100% - only IF you liked it, you would have to buy it. I didn't hear you complain back then - in fact, you purchased, and THEN you started complaining.

Anyway - please drop the ironic / sarcastic / caustic remarks - they only serve to make us less prone to help you.

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Nephi

Anyway - please drop the ironic / sarcastic / caustic remarks - they only serve to make us less prone to help you.

You are entirely right, which is why I had not used them until now. But look at what happens : we tried to be nice, helpful, do our part of the research to solve the problem, tried to find people and setup which worked well and could inspire us... and no news whatsoever from you and the team despite all our attempts. But if I try a little bit of irony... look what happens : I get a reply from you in the hours following my post ! Hours, not even days ! Believe me I take absolutely NO pleasure at all in using sarcasm because it ALWAYS leads to bad relationships, which is conter-productive. But the fact is here : no irony = no answer, a little bit = immediate answer.

As for your emails - I can confirm we have not received any to our support line.

Could you check if your email servers have not blacklisted my email adress ? If you don't have it, I'll be glad to write it here or PM it to you.

Regarding "making money" - I personally take offense at this statement: You had EVERY opportunity to fully test the product 100%

Well not only is this not true as you know (if you followed the email exchange with support) that all the setup [hardware+software] was a GIFT (which means I had no part in it except the initial research in home cockpit building options) but, apart from that, why should you take offense ? Don't we all have to make money one way or another for a living ? No money, no bacon, so why take offense ? Our jobs may be for pleasure or passion (mine sure is) but not only, especially if, as me, you have a family to feed.

Now that all personal grudges have been settled (I had my say, you had yours, fair enough), let's go turn towards the future once more :

We understand you might be frustrated with what you perceive as our misgivings. I explained even awhile back that our developers are very very busy working on the new projects and looking at individual issues that happen only to a few people is something that will happen, but perhaps at a much later time.

First : "misgiving" is defintely not the right word. There is a problem(and we honestly don't care whose fault it is,...) and the only thing that matters to me and all the users having the same problem is that it be solved. That's all. We are definitely not looking for a culprit, which would be not only looking backwards and unproductive, but for a solution.

As for you developers being busy, I can understand that very well, as well as the fact that you, as every company, have a priority list to implement. Fine. All we ask is this :

1) work with us, even slowly but at least a little in trying to find a solution. AS you apparently didn't receive my emails, you didn't receive my findings and suggestions of tests so I'll send them again.

2) Please please please at least communicate a little bit with us on this issue. That's all we ask : to have the impression that you care. Maybe you do, and you have started working on the issue already, but if you don't communicate (at least a little bit) with us on this, how can we know ? Unfortunately we also are human beings and most problem are solved (at least partially) by communicating and talking. It needn't be love letters every day, but factual exchanges every once in a while would, I am positive, settle most grudges ! For all of us !

My 2 cents.

In the meanwhile, any happy user of the driver would be most welcome to post here his specs and configuration (even YOUR configuration, the one you used to test successfully the driver on FSX, would be most interesting !), along with any youtube video he might have made of his setup or whatever could be of help :)

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Nephi

I sent a mail to both support@ and info@ and received no notification that it ever arrived. Could you confirm if it did or did not (in which case you -your server- obviously have blacklisted my email, which is not very convenient to send you info).

Two other points :

1) the bank limit selector does not function properly either (as I most of the time leave it on auto it hadn't occured to me before today)

2) although the synchro between the HDG selector, altitude selector and V/S selector and their PMDG counterpart function flawlessly, the speed synchro is very hard : the numbers keep changing constantly when rotating the knob, and it is quite hard and long to be able to bring it to the desired speed : it constantly switches between the desired speed resulting from rotating the knob and the former speed.

Hope to read you soon, at the very least on the email issue.

Still no happy user of the MCP/Driver who would like to come and post their specs and settings ? We could so much use this info !

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Lefteris Kalamaras

Hello,

no email has reached us - sorry, but we don't black list individual email addresses, so it's on your end.

As for the other points you're making, we'll be revisiting those when we take a look at your performance issues.

Most "happy users" have no reasons to be visiting these forums so the lack of replies is an indication, at least, that the majority are happy users.

Regards,

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Nephi

Hello,

no email has reached us - sorry, but we don't black list individual email addresses, so it's on your end.

Roger that. Funny cause every other professional contact receives my emails every day without any issue. I'll try to find what might cause that, but for the moment I stand clueless... especially since we had email exchanges without any issue in the beginning.

As for the other points you're making, we'll be revisiting those when we take a look at your performance issues.

Rgr that too. Thought these additionnal infos could be a clue leading to the source of the problem.

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pl

Hello

Unfortunately I experience the same problem with micro-stutters with FSX. More than annoying as it hampers future use of the MCP with PMDG 747 and most likely the coming 737NG ?

This is my system

1) FSX - acceleration)

2) Win 7 Home 64

3) Own C://FSX

4) Yes

5) Yes

6) Yes - F-Secure

7) I7 950/Asus X58-s1366/Intel XM SSD/ 6 GB RAM/ Geforce GTX 460

8) FSUIPC registred, CH Pedals/ Saitek X52

9) any other ideas or relevant comments are welcome

10/ No frame rate problems (Unlimited setting)

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Nephi

Hi PL,

many thanks for your input. It seems we all run W7 64bits and FSX-acceleration. Did FsLabs test the MCP and driver on this setup ? I remember reading somewhere a post saying that you had tested it on W7 and saying it worked but did you try it on W7 64bits + FSX-acceleration ? It would be interesting to hear from FsLabs's test team, as we have asked on numerous occasion, about the setup(s ?) they used to test the driver and be sure it was working well. So far, we have had no answer to this very simple question.

Any happy user that would share with us please please ?

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Lars Limrell

Hello

Unfortunately I also experience the same problem with micro-stutters with FSX PMDG 747 400 when for example pressing A/T Arm, F/D. I have used FS Labs for fs9 under win xp without any problems

My system

1) FSX - acceleration)

2) Win 7 Home 64 premium

3) Own C://FSX

4) Yes

5) Yes

6) Yes - Microsoft Essentials

7) Intel q9650 3 gigahertz /Asus p5q pro/Intel XM SSD/ 3 GB RAM/ Geforce GTX 250

8) FSUIPC registred, CH Pedals/ Saitek X52

9) any other ideas or relevant comments are welcome

10/ No frame rate problems (Unlimited setting)

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Nephi

Hi Lars,

many thanks for your infos. Ok there seems to be 4 common things for all of us :

1) we all use W7 64bits

2) we all use FSX and Acceleration (guess it's the majority now)

3) we all use Asus motherboards (although I really can't understand why this would have such an impact but who knows)

4) we all use nVidia GPU (idem)

it would really help to know on which config the FsLabs team tested successfully the driver on FSX as they claim it worked flawlessly. Maybe we could see a difference and start some testing. Any other input will be greatly appreciated.

It would also really help if at least ONE happy user could post. Please ?

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Lars Limrell

Hello

The debug window in the fslabs interface shows many "strings/messages" when pushing A/T Arm and F/D compared to other buttons. I can also see the cpu usage dropping (!?) from 30% to 14 while the microstutter occurs. This info is probably of no use but anyway.

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pl

And for the sake of good order and further troubleshooting the FSLabs PMDG 747/737 FS2004 drivers works flawlessly on the same system, i.e the problem is relatet to the FSX/drivers/interface/PMDG74X

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Lars Limrell

Yes PL, I also run Fslabs with fs9(PMDG 737/747) in the same system/machine without any problems at all.

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pl

I really hope that FSLabs are looking into this problem and find a solution. Fortunately I have only evaluated the drivers around Athens but with the the present performance I will refrain from

buying any licences, either for FSX or FS9.

Certainly I would gladly pay for these and future drivers as well as other products but this issue has to be resolved.

In the meantime i stick to the original drivers from CPflight which fortunately still works to perfection, however limited to FS2004.

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Nephi
The debug window in the fslabs interface shows many "strings/messages" when pushing A/T Arm and F/D compared to other buttons. I can also see the cpu usage dropping (!?) from 30% to 14 while the microstutter occurs. This info is probably of no use but anyway.

I have exactly the same thing : my CPU usage drops suddenly from 100% or so, to almost zero for one second on ALL cores (!!), and then resumes its normal activity. So there is definitely something not normal here.

I really hope that FSLabs are looking into this problem and find a solution.

So do we all. What I find surprising is that none of the interventions on this thread from members of FsLab were looking towards a solution or towards even looking for one ! Each time they were to complain that we dared ask for a solution. I'm really surprised at such low communication with customers, on such a simple matter, even with the multiple proofs of our goodwill and willingness to help solve the problem. It needn't be love letters everyday as we said earlier, but a little bit of communication is the least we could expect I think. So again :

1) what can we do on our end to help provide you with efficient and relevant data for the day you have time to look into this ? What can we try, test, program,... to help solve the matter ?

2) are there any happy user anywhere that would kindly share their configuration with us so that we may start to have clues as to where to look for ?

And that may start with you, at FsLabs team, sharing the config(s) you used successfully as you have said on numerous occasions that you had tested and not been able to replicate the problem. I think sharing this kind of info doesn't reveal any of your programming secrets, does it ? But so far, no answer on this very simple question too :/

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pl

In another thread dating back to June 2010 Mr Kalamaras laconically concludes " it's a known issue and it has to do with the polling nature of the PMDG software. Nothing much can be done on this end"

With that i realize that no further attempts are being made are being made to solve the issue.

However it strike me as a bit odd that FSLabs do not comment this thread confirming there is no hope for the 747X and functionality for coming products from PMDG might be at stake..

Best regards Per

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Nephi

Still no happy user of the driver ?

Still no answer from FsLabs ?

Apart from that, I discovered to day that FsLabs's driver dll is NOT in the FSX's dll.xml file. Is this normal ?

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Lefteris Kalamaras

Dear Nephi,

we looked into this issue more extensively.

The reason is the same as we had posted in June 2010 - this is due to the polling nature of the PMDG 747 gauges (esp. the MCP). Unfortunately, this is out of our control and cannot be corrected further. We are sorry you feel disrespected or otherwise, there's no such intention (despite your sarcastic / caustic comments).

The reason you don't see 'happy users' here is that a happy user doesn't need to frequent a support forum, as they don't feel there's any issue. The only people who come here are the very few who have issues.

Regards,

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Nephi

Dear Lefteris,

many thanks for your reply. We can only be very happy that you took time to look more extensively into the issue (could you be more specific as to what you mean by "more extensively" ?). Let's review your answer step by step shall we ?

First the human relationship points, which are not the most important :

1) as for my sarcastic/caustic comments as you call them, I haven't used sarcasm since my post on the 30th of january which is now a little more than a month ago. And lots of my+other users posts have been written since then...

2) We'll disregard the "happy user not posting at all here" explanation, which is obviously very convenient for you, but unfortunately not supported by facts. I - as well as many other people - happen to be a very happy user of many products (simming related and not) and still frequent the support forums very often. And so do thousands of people. It has allowed me to share solutions I had found with unhappy users of other products several times, and a lot of simmers do the same thing.

I am sure that you will agree that you will seldom find customers such as we are, so ready to help and give time for free to help a provider solve a problem with its product.

3) as for feeling "disrespected or otherwise"... the only pure fact (I'll be efficiency-oriented and forget about feelings) we all notice is that, so far, none of the FsLabs team has answered ANY of the simple questions we've asked. For example, you sure must know which setup(s) you used for the tests of your drivers as you said several times that you conducted successful tests, and later that you were not able to reproduce the issue. Is that a complicated question ? I don't think so and that could give some elements to move on.

Now to the real problem : solving the issue.

You say it is inherent in the polling nature of the PMDG's software and is therefore out of your hands. Two questions arise :

A) Then, how could YOU or any other potential happy user use the MCP+driver+PMDG and yet have NO problem if it's inherent in the PMDG ? We all use the same PMDG software. Every user should therefore have the problem. And still you claim YOU had no problem. And that there is a MAJORITY of users not having the problem. This is inherently incoherent.

B ) If the problem was in the PMDG, then we would have had problems BEFORE the use of the MCP+driver. And as we have all said : our PMDGs worked flawlessly before that (congratulations on this piece of software by the way, as I know you were one of its major builders ! It's a really fantastic plane !). So logical conclusion : it worked before the added element, it doesn't after the addition, therefore there is a problem in the added element.

CONCLUSION : none of this really matters. You claim YOU managed to run the whole thing without any problem. And you claim that a MAJORITY of users don't have the problem. Which means it CAN happen, provided the two claims are true (so far no proof of any, as no happy user ever posted, and you never answered any of our questions concerning your methods, so I'll keep believing in you). And if it CAN happen, it means that there is something preventing it from happening in some cases (namely ours). So the only thing to do is identify what the hell is not right in our cases, compared to the "happy" cases (be it your happy settings or other users).

So what we want is one of two things :

1) either your claims were inaccurate or premature and we have a commercial problem.

2) either they were accurate and there IS a solution somewhere. All we have to do is identify what is different between our unfortunate setups and yours.

I want to believe it is option number 2. And to move on based on this assumption we need to compare pure facts with at least ONE happy user. The only one apparently reading/answering these forums being you and the FsLabs team, we would need to compare the setup statistics that I have gathered from here AND Avsim's forums (we are quite a few people from this forum too to be quite frustrated about the situation) with your setup configurations. From there we can assess the differences and start running tests and make hypotheses. Sharing your tests and findings from your "more extensively" would also prove useful.

We can evidently do that privately by email to make things a little bit more professional. You have my email.

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Lefteris Kalamaras

Nephi,

Thank you for your answer.

I wish I had more time to spend on this debate, but this matter is considered closed in terms of its technical side and, while I'd love to accommodate you otherwise, we need to continue with our current work.

Users who consider purchasing this driver are always free to test it 100% before they purchase, to ensure that it works to their satisfaction.

If you have anything else to add to this issue, please send private email.

Regards,

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Nephi

Wasn't there a post by a guy named Steve Jones here a few days ago ? What happened to it ?

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Lefteris Kalamaras

It was removed due to its disrespectful, sarcastic and contemptuous tone.

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Lefteris Kalamaras

This will be my last warning on this topic:

These forums are a place for respectful exchange of opinions and discussions. If there are further examples of disrespect, the user will be banned.

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