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AMD announce new processors


Ray Proudfoot

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Ray Proudfoot

Overnight AMD have released news on their latest Ryzen 7000 processors. Clock speed up to 5.7Ghz. B)

In late September Intel will be announcing their latest processors.

I was going to start deciding on a new PC this month but hanging on a little longer seems sensible.

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Daniel Saffran

I've gone for AMD on my current Build to max out on Cores and VRAM and learned one Thing: I'll go for Intel+Nvidia again (Rocket-Lake / Lovelace) as soon as they are out. One Reason being that Prepar3D is just not able to use the Resources efficiently. The other Reason being stability and annoying Issues I never have experienced on Intel (USB Discos, Microstutters ...).

"Disclaimer"
I don't want to start a "Team Blue/Green or Red is better / the best" Discussion / War. We live in times where you can again get great (and bad!) Products from either Party (if available xD). So it is even more personal choice now, and that is great!
I just want to share my personal Experience about that one time trying AMD. Never really regret it, but would not do it again either :) 

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Rob Ainscough

Cool.

Intel will be releasing Raptor lake 13900K Oct 13th I believe (with pre-orders on Sept 28th one day after AMD makes 7000 series available for sale), or at least making some type of announcement ... it is supposed to be a tad faster in single thread performance by 4% over the7950X and has more cores 24 (but keep in mind eCores).

Intel's 13000 series, the13900K is the only one that outperforms AMD 7950X ... however, AMD have yet to implement 3D V-cache for the 7000 series CPUs which should be available Dec 2022 or Jan 2023.

Intel CPU overclock process is very different, more a brute force approach using lots of POWER, must have MORE POWER (in my best Arnold S. voice).  Intel still 7nm process, AMD is 5nm process.

AMD have F-Max which limits the boost frequency to 5.85 Ghz no matter what one does (you have to get very creative if you want to get around that, think major hacks).

Either way, I'd wait a month or two ... the 7900X is probably the best performance bang for the buck even after Intel's release.

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Rob Ainscough
26 minutes ago, Daniel Saffran said:

The other Reason being stability and annoying Issues I never have experienced on Intel (USB Discos, Microstutters ...)

There was an EFI/BIOS update for AMD 5000 series that solved the micro stutter issue ... it was related to the TPM (Trusted Platform Module).  Intel have their own fair share of little issues from performance to security to power to heat.  Can't say I've noticed any difference in stability between the two after OC testing and getting Intel/AMD working optimally ... both seem very stable.

AMD responds to lower latency RAM better than Intel, so RAM choice is very important with AMD, I gained a 15% increase across the board by simply moving up from 3000Mhz CL16 64GB to 3600Mhz CL14 64GB.  

BUT Microsoft clearly favor Intel and have added OS support directly for Intel and not for AMD ... so AMD does have an uphill battle when both OS vendor (MS) and CPU vendor (Intel) are working very closely together.  Something to think about.

On a side note, if you do any sort of benchmark testing, be sure to disable Process Lasso (or similar tools) otherwise you'll probably end up with lower performance scores.  Process Lasso works well for P3D in terms of multiple core efficiency but disable it if you do any benchmarking.

I'll be buying a 7950X Sept 27th (I hope, if I can beat the BOTs) along with some good DDR5 RAM ... plan to pair it up with AMD's RNA3 GPU later this year as the WATT requirements for nVidia 4000 series and out of this world price has made it more affordable to fly a mission to MARS in the real world. ;)  

Cheers, Rob.

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Markus Burkhard
4 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Intel will be releasing Raptor lake 13900K Oct 13th I believe (with pre-orders on Sept 28th one day after AMD makes 7000 series available for sale), or at least making some type of announcement ... it is supposed to be a tad faster in single thread performance by 4% over the7950X and has more cores 24 (but keep in mind eCores).

Sure, release the 24 cores monster first, the one that gamers don't need but will buy anyway, because they'll want it immediately. Bit of a cash-grab there by Intel.

Buying a 24 core CPU for flightsim purposes is complete nonsense. Even though both P3D and MSFS can use multiple cores, and so does FSL software, nothing in PC flightsim will be optimised to really take advantage of that many cores, for many years to come. Heck DCS is still basically a single-core sim. 
So I would recommend anyone reading not to fall for the 13900K trap. Save money (and power requirements) by either shopping for the new AMD 7000 series, or at the very least wait for a 13000 series Intel CPU that is at least one model below the flagship.
For me personally the AMD 7000 series seems to be the winner this time around, as the rumoured power requirements of the next gen Intel silicon is borderline insanity. I'll hold my final judgment for when the specifications are here, but looking at the 12000 series chips and the rumours for the new one, it does not look too promising for Intel to be perfectly honest. 

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Rob Ainscough
6 minutes ago, Markus Burkhard said:

Even though both P3D and MSFS can use multiple cores

That's false, well at least for P3D ... skip forward to 10:27 and you can see plenty of multi-core activity:

Agree that 24 cores would not be terribly useful for P3D, 12 real cores would do it for me.

Cheers, Rob.

 

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Markus Burkhard
11 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

That's false, well at least for P3D ... skip forward to 10:27 and you can see plenty of multi-core activity:

Agree that 24 cores would not be terribly useful for P3D, 12 real cores would do it for me.

I know Rob, that's what I was trying to say. It can use multiple cores, and yes will of course also "use" 24 of those. But it is nowhere near optimised for that many. Hence me recommending to save money there and use it for a better GPU, faster RAM, fast SSD and so on.

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Rob Ainscough

Agree that 24 cores will just add overhead to the main thread ... for my needs 12 "real cores" (not eCores, not SMT, not HT) cores would be the sweet spot ... which falls right into AMD 7900X spec ($549).  AMD has 76-80MB Cache, Intel's 68MB Cache ... there might be an advantage to disabling the cores on the 13900K as the cache is shared.

Huge benefit to all is the competition between AMD/Intel will help keep prices lower.  I also hope AMD's next gen GPU brings enough grunt to the table to force nVidia to rethink it's insane "projected" MSRP for the 4000 series.  We really NEED AMD as viable competition.

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Nuno M Pinto

I also agree that the 7900X seems to be the best next-gen CPU to go for. I'm not in the hunt for a new system, but if i was i would definitely go for that one.

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Daniel Saffran
19 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

There was an EFI/BIOS update for AMD 5000 series that solved the micro stutter issue ... it was related to the TPM (Trusted Platform Module).  Intel have their own fair share of little issues from performance to security to power to heat.  Can't say I've noticed any difference in stability between the two after OC testing and getting Intel/AMD working optimally ... both seem very stable.

Yeah I know, always updated to the latest BIOS (and therefore AGESA). But it took very long / multiple Version until AMD got it sorted out (mostly, still have some micros now).

Sure, had / have now fundamental stability Issues either, even OCed! :) 
It was just Sim-wise unstable when you loose your Joysticks and it was annoying to regularly hear the crippled sound due to stutters.

19 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

AMD responds to lower latency RAM better than Intel, so RAM choice is very important with AMD, I gained a 15% increase across the board by simply moving up from 3000Mhz CL16 64GB to 3600Mhz CL14 64GB.  

I would add that it is more important to use at least 3600 MHz to have the FCLK on 1:1 (and at that speed the lowest CL which one can afford). For Ryzen 5xxx - has to be seen what the Sweet-Spot for 7xxx is for a 1:1 Clock-Ratio!

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Rob Ainscough

Yeah it did take a while for AMD to get it sorted.  I've never had any USB issues (47 USB devices attached) but I was in late on the AMD 5950X bandwagon as I refused to pay over MSRP so waited long after release date.

I can keep my AMD 5950X very cool, considerably cooler than any Intel CPU I have.  Even chilled my Intel CPU would frequently hit 90 C under heavy loads, my AMD 5950X hits 56 C under very heavy loads.  Intel was MUCH harder to OC.

 

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Daniel Saffran

woah?! 56 C for an OCed 5950x? Impressive, what do you use as Cooler? I use mine as Room-Heater :lol:

 

What I forgot to add for the Reasons moving back to Intel/Nvidia: The "incompatibilities" between P3D and AMD GPUs (white flickering on SSAA >= 4, grid pattern on transparent Textures). Though they are purely LM's fault, there is no real hope that they will fix it.

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Markus Burkhard
50 minutes ago, Daniel Saffran said:

What I forgot to add for the Reasons moving back to Intel/Nvidia: The "incompatibilities" between P3D and AMD GPUs (white flickering on SSAA >= 4, grid pattern on transparent Textures). Though they are purely LM's fault, there is no real hope that they will fix it.

I guess you're aware of this but I would just like to add for anyone else reading here; There is no requirement to pair Intel CPUs with Nvidia GPUs, there's no mandatory link between any of AMD's, Intel's or Nvidia's products.
So if someone has issues with AMD GPUs in a sim, there's no reason to switch the entire platform to Intel if a Nvidia GPU is desired. Nor does one need an AMD GPU if one of the new Ryzen 7000 series CPUs is desired. 

There is just a small advantage if one uses both AMD CPU and GPU, in which there is certain memory sharing capability available that might increase performance in certain use-cases. But I've never read anything about this being a groundbreaking advantage. It's more like an added bonus but does not necessitate to pair the two.

Anyone is free to match between the three suppliers this autumn. I would just like to remind that it will be important to not simply compare price vs. performance, but also take power consumption into consideration. 

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Rob Ainscough
4 hours ago, Daniel Saffran said:

woah?! 56 C for an OCed 5950x?

That's my peak under heavy loads during benchmark, not my average. :)  ... I built my silent chiller to keep my main FS PC cool and quiet.

 

 

 

I'm working on another project that'll make this one look like child's play ... stay tuned.

FYI, I have Tinnitus (since about age 21) hence why my push to go sub-ambient and do it relatively quietly as constant frequency noise makes life uncomfortable for me, that was "one" of a couple motivations for this projects.

My SimPit, not setup with A2A, looks better with an FSL aircraft, more displays and buttons active :)

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

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Daniel Saffran
On 9/4/2022 at 3:20 PM, Markus Burkhard said:

I guess you're aware of this but I would just like to add for anyone else reading here; There is no requirement to pair Intel CPUs with Nvidia GPUs, there's no mandatory link between any of AMD's, Intel's or Nvidia's products.

Yeah, absolutely true! Thanks for Clarification ;) 

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Rob Ainscough

Given nVidia's recent announcement they plan to manipulate the 4000 series prices due to excessive 3000 series inventory ... I guess they didn't think Crypto would fail?? 

This puts AMD CPU and GPUs (RNA3 7000 series) in a great position.  How many ways can Jensen try to screw non-crypto customers ... all those direct deals to crypto miners and now holding back 4000 series supply so as to offload old inventory.  Not sure making this public at a shareholders meeting was such a great idea nVidia?

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Rob Ainscough

So now EVGA is not longer a nVidia partner (EVGA stopping all GPU production) ... that's  a shame, I only buy EVGA PSUs and GPUs.  Cements my purchase of AMD going forward.  Design and competition are vital to a good consumer price to performance ratio ... nVidia play on being like Apple.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Rob Ainscough

Watched a few actual real world performance testing videos ... ouch for Intel ... AMD 7950X ordered and on it's way ... 

uc?export=view&id=1kSXSRYLri3mdupaOdHBhf

Now I need to find a motherboard and some quality DDR5 RAM ... 

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Ray Proudfoot

$740 will equate to around 700GBP given the way Sterling is going. We’re you not tempted to wait for Intel with 6Ghz rumoured?

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AMD 7950X is $699 ... Oregon so no tax, $40+ is for expedited shipping.

Intel can't run boost on more than 2 cores and power consumption is much higher, AMD 7950X is only about 10 watts higher than my 5950X.  

I'm also very interested in DE lidding results.  But with that said, I'll be in the market for another CPU for my Development PC so if the 13900K pans out I'll cover my bases.

But VERY unlikely I'll get nVidia 4000 series GPU anything, not at $1599 and 660 watts.

I remember when BPS was $2.06 dollar to 1 BPS ... 10p would actually by lots of sweets from the tuck shop. :)

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FYI, ASUS extreme motherboard is $1000, DDR5 6600 Mhz RAM CL32 64GB $700, EK AM5 CPU water block $180 ... wait on the water block, due Oct 21.

Only 3 PCIe slots, ugh and spacing between my GPU fully enclosed (front/back) water block (3090) is too close to my RAM water block so can't use PCIe slot one.

My issue is that I need to run a 2nd PCIe US card for all my other FS devices.

Waiting to build this out before I contact Pete so I can give him some metrics on performance with his P3D setup and see how/if he wants to proceed.

 

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