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Excellent news about A320Neo and Concorde for P3D first - THANK YOU!


Rob Ainscough

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Rob Ainscough

Here is my list of things MSFS need to bring before I consider it a viable platform for what I want to do with a flight simulator:

1.  Multi-monitor support with detachable views that can be dragged and placed (full screen) on those other monitors ... this is required for using my RealSimGear hardware GNS 530 and GTN 750.

2.  Accurate weather radar support

3.  Accurate weather

4.  Historical weather

5.  Increased LoDRadius without massive FPS drop

6.  DX12 so I can actually use the Ray Tracing accelerated support from my GPU

7.  A viable replay system (the one in dev mode is a joke)

8.  A much better camera system and zooming capabilities (fish eye just doesn't hack it)

9.  Fix Photogrammetry so that freeway overpasses, bridges and other objects aren't walls

10.  Fix the very annoying horizontal line that goes from side to side and always present and very present during dusk (very obvious in 4K or higher resolutions)

11.  Improve SDK so the 3rd party can make AI traffic not be brain dead and spinning while parked (live AI is a joke and source of stutters)

12.  Fix Photogrammerty caching so that resolved resolution of objects gets loaded rather than almost always gets re-loaded ... hint a large PR cache should work much better NOT worse ... I/O bandwidth latency is ns and GB/sec, many orders of magnitude better than my 1Gbps internet connection. 

13.  Fix Photogrammerty so it resolves to higher resolution fast (melted building is NOT next generation)

14.  Fix SDK with ability to use external hardware modules (GoFlight and others) beyond very basic functionality

15.  Better flight physics, cross winds are still broken as are gusts

16.  Fix the shadow drawing problems that are very obvious

17.  Fix the water rooftops on buildings

18.  Fix the overly shaded clouds and the clear sky puff clouds issue

19.  Fix the excessive darkness when clouds are overhead

20.  Add specular ray support (DX12)

21.  Fix strange massive FPS drops in certain situations 

22.  Provide an easy way to completely remove the auto menu pop (words not icons)

23.  Stop working on free scenery, we have 3rd party devs that can do that, use those resources elsewhere

24.  Fix all the ocean/water cracks

25.  Add proper haze support, as shown in my real world video, haze is real, does happen, pretty common, yes it doesn't look as "pretty" but I'm after realism.

I couldn't care less about cost, this hobby is still 1000X cheaper than any other hobby I have (be it P3D, XP, or MSFS).  Don't care about VR, don't care about XBOX, do care about those 25 items above ... selfish, sure ... but that's what it will take for me to start taking MSFS seriously and not think of it as just a game (nothing wrong with games BTW, I enjoy games also, Anno 1800, AOE IV, Civ VI).

Cheers, Rob.

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Danny Moore

This whole topic went from discussing the great news announcement to let’s bash MSFS2020. SMH
Granted Rob started the post but I think we get it several pages back.

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Ray Proudfoot

Your list has just reminded me of a third red line Rob....

ChasePlane! Why hasn’t the author released a version for MSFS? Without it navigating around a VC is a nightmare. I guess after 2 years if we don’t have it by now we never will.

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Ray Proudfoot
23 minutes ago, Danny Moore said:

This whole topic went from discussing the great news announcement to let’s bash MSFS2020.

So you consider highlighting faults or features not available/ not planned are “bashing”? It’s been out two years. You might well ask Asobo why those haven’t been addressed. It’s a legitimate question.

And given this is the FSL forum that only develops for P3D what do you expect?

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Danny Moore
So you consider highlighting faults or features not available/ not planned are “bashing”? It’s been out two years. You might well ask Asobo why those haven’t been addressed. It’s a legitimate question.
And given this is the FSL forum that only develops for P3D what do you expect?

I’m going by what the topic of this subject is. which states excellent news which I agree. As far as supporting FSLabs i’m all on board for P3D. I own more than just one of their products to show my support.

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Steven Agre
8 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

So you consider highlighting faults or features not available/ not planned are “bashing”? It’s been out two years. You might well ask Asobo why those haven’t been addressed. It’s a legitimate question.

And given this is the FSL forum that only develops for P3D what do you expect?

This thread was created in response to FSL announcing several things: The A320 Neo, Concorde Updates, and the A330 as well as their plans regarding both P3D and MSFS development.

Rob made his opinion quite clear in the beginning that he was happy that P3D development was coming first in response to this announcement, but as I'm sure you've seen many of us who, as you can see from our sidebars, also love FSL but who have moved toward MSFS are expressing both our excitement for future FSL Development for the MSFS platform, and also expressing our disagreement with what Rob and others have said about MSFS as a flight simulator.

I don't think it's surprising that Rob, who made a post that was extremely negative toward MSFS's graphics/world scenery in particular was met with ridicule given the current state of what the P3D world looks like. There's things you can bash MSFS for no doubt, the camera system is clunky and annoying, there are still features that we have grown accustomed to in P3D that are missing, and addon makers like Activesky and others haven't transitioned to MSFS to provide things like historical weather which are clearly popular features for the more hardcore simmers among us. But come on, it doesn't take a whole lot of experience to see that out of the box the visual experience in MSFS is far superior to P3D.

Forgive us who love our FSL addons for sharing our pleasure with the new simulator and expressing our desire to see products developed for it. I think there are many people who feel that further investment in P3D addons at this point is not worth it.

 

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Ray Proudfoot
7 minutes ago, Steven Agre said:

But come on, it doesn't take a whole lot of experience to see that out of the box the visual experience in MSFS is far superior to P3D.

I’m sure you’ve heard the expression “beauty is skin deep”. ;)

MSFS reminds me of a beautiful woman who has so many flaws I couldn’t possibly entertain marrying her. I’ll stick with the rather plainer lady who might not be a looker but ticks all my boxes. :D

I take it you won’t be buying Concorde for P3D then.

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Rob Ainscough
6 minutes ago, Steven Agre said:

who made a post that was extremely negative toward MSFS's graphics/world scenery in particular was met with ridicule given the current state of what the P3D world looks like.

Actually what I see are a lot of people agreeing with me, 19 or so.

What I've listed (25 items) above isn't opinion.

Call it whatever you want, negative, bashing, etc. ... doesn't really change the facts ... those 25 items are still present.  I get that some tolerate those items (and others) I've listed (fair enough), but I don't really get your diversion?  Don't talk about?  Or it's already known so don't talk about it?  I'm talking about it, it's accurate is it not?  Is it really that you don't like that these aircraft are coming out for P3D first?  If so, just say so.

P3D has bad stuff, yep.  MSFS has bad stuff, yep.  We all have different expectations and requirements, fair enough, but that still doesn't change the reality of what I posted be it negative or whatever ... these statements about being negative or bashing is non sequitur.

Cheers, Rob.

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Danny Moore
I’m sure you’ve heard the expression “beauty is skin deep”. 
MSFS reminds me of a beautiful woman who has so many flaws I couldn’t possibly entertain marrying her. I’ll stick with the rather plainer lady who might not be a looker but ticks all my boxes. 
I take it you won’t be buying Concorde for P3D then.

Ray for you this whole thing is about the Concorde and the platform you need to run it on and as it stands right now the platform is P3D which is best suited for it. You could care less about any other aircraft or sim development or even the news of a NEO or A330 by FSLabs. Thank goodness they brought back the Concorde project. I remember when they put it on hold. And just a FYI, I still use and love P3D. I can also enjoy other sims because for me I don’t limit myself.


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Steven Agre
2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I’m sure you’ve heard the expression “beauty is skin deep”. ;)

MSFS reminds me of a beautiful woman who has so many flaws I couldn’t possibly entertain marrying her. I’ll stick with the rather plainer lady who might not be a looker but ticks all my boxes. :D

I take it you won’t be buying Concorde for P3D then.

Well as I'm sure you've noticed I didn't buy the Concorde for V3 either. Obviously a great airplane, but just never resonated with me. I guess this is where the difference in what we consider 'depth' to be. For some it's the systems depth of a single amazing addon like the Concorde or the FSL A320. For others, it's flying realistic schedules or airline operations with great ATC (thankfully this one isn't too sim dependent).

For me, I can't deny I love some good systems. But being able to explore new airports, flying new procedures in a well developed addon is what I consider 'depth'. For me, MSFS is far deeper in this regard than P3D ever was. Flying routes like Delhi - Kathmandu, Shanghai - Hefei, or the United Island Hopper felt disappointing no matter how much money I dumped into addons. So I don't think it's fair to say MSFS isn't "deep". It's just not deep in the one specific area you wish it to be deep in yet. For someone like me, it's P3D's lack of good global scenery that makes it feel shallow in comparison.

Maybe I misjudge, but I don't think I'm the only person where I simply need a reliable plane that can fly on Vatsim without having to fight it if things don't go exactly as the plane expects. This has always been what has separated the big boys (FSL, PMDG) from those like Aerosoft or QualityWings. Now we have airplanes that meet this standard in MSFS, and that combined with the amazing freedom of being able to choose any random route and knowing it will feel deep and immersive makes MSFS the deeper sim for myself.

Nothing would make me happier than a good longhaul plane that can be the workhorse for me. I know FSL have an A332 on the horizon, and this is that perfect plane. So many airlines fly them on so many interesting routes. Air France to West Africa (a place that looks, let's say, terrible in P3D), Turkish Airlines to Central Asia (Again, another place that has never recieved any love in P3D), South African Airways, China Southern, and on and on. This is what I look forward to in MSFS that I know P3D will never be able to satiate.

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Ray Proudfoot
1 hour ago, Steven Agre said:

Well as I'm sure you've noticed I didn't buy the Concorde for V3 either. Obviously a great airplane, but just never resonated with me. I guess this is where the difference in what we consider 'depth' to be.

That’s fine. We all have our favourite aircraft. I’ve never taken to Airbus preferring Boeing. Concorde is special and the FSL one is the best. I enjoy managing the fuel as much as flying it. Very satisfying when it all works as planned.

1 hour ago, Steven Agre said:

For someone like me, it's P3D's lack of good global scenery that makes it feel shallow in comparison.

v5 has vastly improved scenery but not close to MSFS I grant you. If I flew VFR <3,000ft I’d buy MSFS in a heartbeat. But all my flying is at high altitude and all around the world. Hence why historical weather is very important to me.

1 hour ago, Steven Agre said:

Nothing would make me happier than a good longhaul plane that can be the workhorse for me. I know FSL have an A332 on the horizon, and this is that perfect plane.

Those must be very long flights. I’d get bored. Nothing with Concorde is greater than 4 hours and managing the fuel means there’s always something to do. I invariably fly in normal time too. Retirement has its benefits.

In the meantime enjoy your flights! ;)

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Rob Ainscough
4 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Nothing with Concorde is greater than 4 hours and managing the fuel means there’s always something to do. I invariably fly in normal time too.

Me too, I can barely make time for 2 hour flights these days ... not retired yet unfortunately.  Not much to see at 60,000 ft ... but I'd love to see a quality Gulfstream 800 (either FSLabs or someone else). 

Cheers, Rob.

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Steven Agre
20 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Those must be very long flights. I’d get bored. Nothing with Concorde is greater than 4 hours and managing the fuel means there’s always something to do. I invariably fly in normal time too. Retirement has its benefits.

In the meantime enjoy your flights! ;)

They're not always super long! Europe to West Africa is only 4 hours or so at the longest, and there's some great scenery along the way. Lots of shorter A330 flights in Asia and even in the U.S too.

For longer flights, a nice thing for us non-retired folks is that you can depart in the evening, let the 'relief pilot' take over and sleep, and then do the approach/landing in the morning. Just like real life! :P

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Ray Proudfoot
9 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Not much to see at 60,000 ft ... but I'd love to see a quality Gulfstream 800 (either FSLabs or someone else). 

I should count my blessings. Flying time is 10:00 - 16:00 when the weather is grotty as it often is in NW England. I thought Gulfstream forbade anyone modelling their aircraft. Would be nice to get one.

8 minutes ago, Steven Agre said:

For longer flights, a nice thing for us non-retired folks is that you can depart in the evening, let the 'relief pilot' takeover and sleep, and then do the approach/landing in the morning. Just like real life! :P

I never fly in the evening. That’s TV time. One day you’ll be retired and flight sim is the perfect hobby.

I did do a few overnight flights years ago. Cape Town to Heathrow But it was a nervous time hoping you didn’t bugger up the approach and landing. :D

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peter kelberg
10 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

ChasePlane! Why hasn’t the author released a version for MSFS? Without it navigating around a VC is a nightmare

not really  ray  you can set  up the  views  just  like   chase  plane  just  as  i have  done   got  my num  pad  all set  up  just need  to press  just the  one  key to bring  me  to whatever  view i have made

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Ray Proudfoot
3 hours ago, peter kelberg said:

not really  ray  you can set  up the  views  just  like   chase  plane  just  as  i have  done   got  my num  pad  all set  up  just need  to press  just the  one  key to bring  me  to whatever  view i have made

You’re the first person to say that. Outside views as well?

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Paolo Fumagalli

Amazing news from FSLabs! Can't wait to see what comes out in the next months/years, I'm sure it will be a great future for flight simulation. I mean, can't wait to fly the Concorde and the NEO with FSLabs quality!!

That said, I'll give my 2 cents about MSFS. I honestly use both P3Dv5 and FS2020 and for the same kind of flights. We can argue all day but it seems to be exactly like years ago when FS9 and FSX were available and people were fighting about which one was better for "simulation". There are good and bad things about both sims but when (and if) FS2020 gets GSX, ActiveSky and weather API I think it will be hard to keep people on the P3D train.

I agree that, at the moment, is not the perfect simulator that some people would suggest. But once you manage to have exactly the same "experience" that we are able to have in P3D (simulation wise) there will not be a reason to stick with P3D. The only one would be the money spent on P3D, but the same was true when we all were on FS9 and moved to FSX and then P3D...

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Jose Rodrigues

@Paolo Fumagalli lol, you reminded me that when I switched from FS9 to FSX (which I wasn't going to do either!) it was because someone offered me a box of FSX Deluxe and then I ran out of excuses...

:D

By the way, I am one of those who bought the NGXu during that promotion and now have €100 available at PMDG. I wish FSLabs would do something similar when they launch their 320s...

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Omar Al-Safi
15 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

ChasePlane! Why hasn’t the author released a version for MSFS? Without it navigating around a VC is a nightmare. I guess after 2 years if we don’t have it by now we never will.

Is not needed. The default camera is actually good once you know how to use it and how to customize it.

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Ray Proudfoot
40 minutes ago, Omar Al-Safi said:

Is not needed. The default camera is actually good once you know how to use it and how to customize it.

From all the YT videos I've seen and I've seen a lot it looks like the mouse is being used to navigate around the cockpit. That's not for me. I want the same functionality as ChasePlane.

Does the default camera come with instructions? Any YT videos showing how to configure views?

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Tom van der Elst
1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

 

Does the default camera come with instructions? Any YT videos showing how to configure views?

Do a search for  "How to set up custom camera views in MSFS2020" and you will get

a lot of very useful information like this :

or this :

 

 

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Ray Proudfoot
5 minutes ago, Tom van der Elst said:

Do a search for  "How to set up custom camera views in MSFS2020" and you will get a lot of very useful information like this :

Thanks Tom. That's one red line removed. Two others still remain. :(

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Daniel Jaffe

The MSFS camera system is not Chaseplane or X-Camera level -- frankly XP has all the sims beat when it comes to camera options.  Regardless, the MSFS camera system is useable and some developers are making it a little easier to get things like window views by including the cabin as part of the cockpit environment.  There are also some workarounds for outside views -- but that workaround has some odd side effects with the PDMG 737 (but that's another story).  A major weakness of the camera system beside the inside/outside issue is that there are a limited number of custom slots. Although those custom slots can be combined with predefined instrument views for a total of 20 keyboard shortcut views, it's not ideal, but it is tolerable.

As to Ray's question about Chaseplane, the developers have explained that they can't bring the product to MSFS because Asobo has locked the camera system.  It sounds similar to the weather system lockdown.  

 

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Ray Proudfoot
16 minutes ago, Daniel Jaffe said:

As to Ray's question about Chaseplane, the developers have explained that they can't bring the product to MSFS because Asobo has locked the camera system.  It sounds similar to the weather system lockdown. 

I fail to understand why they're being so protective. It's a camera system, not a state secret. It's time they got their act together and provided something as good as ChasePlane even if it was chargeable.

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Rob Ainscough
3 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

That's one red line removed.

Unless you need very basic functionality, Chaseplane is light years ahead of MSFS camera system ...

MSFS can't 

1.  Save views per aircraft and automatically load those view per aircraft (it's global for all aircraft) 

2.  There is no static camera you can place anywhere in the world and save it's location

3.  There is no Gimbal On/Off mode

4.  There is no ability to manage the easing in/out (motion)

5.  There is no ability adjust motion speed on the fly per aircraft

6.  There is no ability to easily turn tracking on/off

7.  There is no ability to control FX (rumble, jet wash, etc.) or even detect them

8.  Zooming is horrendous, doesn't support moving away infinitely vs. zoom out

I know Keven M. (dev of ChasePlane) and he has a long list of missing MSFS SDK functionality preventing him from providing anything like ChasePlane in MSFS ... same for Mark (X-camera developer for XP).  Have a read (Mark even interjects with the crickets of Asobo):

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/chaseplane/140559

And whatever you do, don't hit the Pause in MSFS and wait for than a minute or two ... it's laughable at what happens if you do (game written all over it).

Cheers, Rob.

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Ray Proudfoot

Having watched Squirrel’s first video it looks clunky. And as Rob points out the views are global, not specific for each aircraft.

My old iPad won’t let me see the discussion with Keven. Missing elements of the SDK may be completed one day. I’ll keep to what I’m familiar with.

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Alex Pugh
46 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Having watched Squirrel’s first video it looks clunky. And as Rob points out the views are global, not specific for each aircraft.

My old iPad won’t let me see the discussion with Keven. Missing elements of the SDK may be completed one day. I’ll keep to what I’m familiar with.

FWIW I have custom views for each aircraft I’ve mapped to a spare joystick hat just like I have with Chaseplane. The camera system is one of MSFS’ biggest weaknesses for sure but you can definitely have custom cameras. I guess maybe I don’t understand Rob’s first point.

Not trying to convince anyone here but I think some balance is needed, given that I’ve (and hundreds if not thousands of others) put in a dozen-plus highly enjoyable hours in the NG3 and Fenix since their release. And I’m a “serious simmer” who barely touched MSFS until the high quality airliners dropped.

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Ray Proudfoot

Alex, did you use ChasePlane? Would you prefer that to the current method?

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Steven Agre
20 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Alex, did you use ChasePlane? Would you prefer that to the current method?

I used Chaseplane with P3D and I would say yes, I'd much prefer having Chaseplane or an equivalent option in MSFS. But it's not a dealbreaker for me personally as once you get used to it you can get the cameras to mostly do what you want. It's much better than the default P3D camera system, for example.

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Holger Teutsch

It's just the whole package that must bring value. As you can see in my signature I have a fleet of A32x on 3 simulators and they all bring specific features (want to look at xBAS or xLS?) and have specific weak points.
I use all 3 platforms and will continue to do so. I can only say that usage of MSFS was nearly 0% and is now ramping up steeply.

Gesendet von meinem Pixel 6 mit Tapatalk

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Omar Al-Safi
12 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

From all the YT videos I've seen and I've seen a lot it looks like the mouse is being used to navigate around the cockpit. That's not for me. I want the same functionality as ChasePlane.

Does the default camera come with instructions? Any YT videos showing how to configure views?

No not only mouse, keyboard as well. Forgot how ChasePlane works TBH, is just about getting used to. 

There are tons of videos on YT, you can just search for configure views on MSFS or something similar. 

 

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Omar Al-Safi
7 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Save views per aircraft and automatically load those view per aircraft (it's global for all aircraft) 

Are you always spreading misleading facts about MSFS? No it is not, it is always per aircraft since day 1.

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peter kelberg
15 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

You’re the first person to say that. Outside views as well?

yes  you can  but  you need  to edit  the  camera cfg its  abit  more  work  but  it  can be  done  there  is  a  utube  on it  on how its  done.  The  only  thing i miss  about  chase  plane  is  that  you could assign  2  views  on  one  key

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Jackson Strand

I've had such great experiences in P3d, X-Plane, and now I'm having some great experiences in MSFS as well. 

Anyways, since we apparently have to pick sides, for me its:

FriendshipOver.thumb.jpg.1bb4a0b92386ab4a10deaf5aac9a8eac.jpg

 

:rolleyes:

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Rob Ainscough
2 hours ago, Omar Al-Safi said:

Are you always spreading misleading facts about MSFS? No it is not, it is always per aircraft since day 1.

Wow, drama much ... always??  So how do I save a 11th (or more) custom camera for my aircraft in MSFS?  Or how do I save 20 static cameras around an airport?

Anyway ... here is a tool that helps with MSFS camera limitations.  I recommend you read the warnings as you need to install the camera files into the main MSFS location ... as pointed out you can edit the files manually also but be aware any MSFS updates could potentially wipe them all out.

ChasePlane has no such limits and the settings are maintained elsewhere so any P3D updates will not wipe them out like has happened to me in the past with MSFS updates.

Cheers, Rob.

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peter kelberg

Geez  every  time  that  one of  us mention msfs  in any  which way you will always  come  back  with a book of  negatives  and points  that  are  wrong  with  msfs.  Time  to give  it  a rest  and  let  us  msfs  users  have  to  fun   not  like  your  forced into using  msfs.  We all get  it  you have  a  agenda  against  msfs

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Steve Prowse
2 hours ago, peter kelberg said:

Geez  every  time  that  one of  us mention msfs  in any  which way you will always  come  back  with a book of  negatives  and points  that  are  wrong  with  msfs.  Time  to give  it  a rest  and  let  us  msfs  users  have  to  fun   not  like  your  forced into using  msfs.  We all get  it  you have  a  agenda  against  msfs

Could not agree more with you Peter.  The irony is though P3D users spend so much money on ‘eye candy’ trying to make P3D at least graphically acceptable .  I couldn’t careless if they never install MSFS, but please give this bashing a rest…..we get it you don’t like it!  BTW just how long has P3D been around?   Why does P3D need shaders, scenery enhancements, or indeed chase plane?   Well I guess it’s because the default is awful a bit like FSX?  Hey let’s talk about default airlines surely there something for new flightsim guys to try?  Nah nothing…..

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Rob Ainscough
2 hours ago, peter kelberg said:

come  back  with a book of  negatives  and points  that  are  wrong  with  msfs

I'll refer you back to my post here.

9 minutes ago, Steve Prowse said:

we get it you don’t like it!

Actually you don't get it ... I'll refer you back to my post here.  If Asobo hit those 25 points, I'll get more involved in MSFS, until then it's just not moving my enjoyment value forward.

Cheers, Rob.

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Steve Prowse
23 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I'll refer you back to my post here.

Actually you don't get it ... I'll refer you back to my post here.  If Asobo hit those 25 points, I'll get more involved in MSFS, until then it's just not moving my enjoyment value forward.

Cheers, Rob.

What you don’t get Rob is thousands do like it now without your 25 point list.  Moreover we like it even more now with PMDG, FENIX etc and that is straight out of the box. As I say please carry on enjoying P3D and let us enjoy MSFS, move on for goodness sake we really do get it.  Just how long has LM been trying to get P3D graphics right, which you yourself state still ain’t right….go figure

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Rob Ainscough
5 minutes ago, Steve Prowse said:

What you don’t get Rob is thousands do like it now without your 25 point list.

I believe 3 Million is the current unit sales of MSFS ... never disagreed that more like MSFS, review my posts. 

Not really sure how you think I'm stopping anyone from enjoying MSFS?  

P3D has/had plenty of issues and people like yourself and many others pointed them out daily (many valid, some not, some trolls) ... why suggest move on?  No one is forcing you to post here or even read this thread?

Are you really here because it bothers you that these aircraft are coming out for P3D first?  If so, why?

Cheers, Rob.

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Steve Prowse

Why Rob does MFSFS bother you so much simple don’t use it, it is as simple as that…I couldn’t careless about P3D Rob, read my early posts.  Just give it a rest mate. BTW I don’t think I’ve bashed P3D, it’s FSX after all, the license issue with LM…now that’s something else isn’t it.

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Rob Ainscough
1 minute ago, Steve Prowse said:

Just give it a rest mate

Why?  That makes no sense ... I never gave it a rest for P3D or XP, complacency isn't good for progress.  I'm not trying to tell you to give it a rest ... not that you have any say on what I post.

I listed my 25 missing/broken elements in MSFS ... why would I want to go "backwards", just because other's don't mind, sorry I'm not a crowd follower, never have been, I make my own path/decisions.

You seem to be going in circles and/or definitely not happy that FSLabs releasing the P3D version first ... you and I know the answer, the MSFS SDK is just too weak to support everything that these FSLabs aircraft can do in P3D.  MSFS versions are coming out later because FSLabs development team are likely waiting for Asobo to get their act together and provide the necessary features in the SDK or they're having to go outside the SDK (time consuming and expensive).

If you have a problem with that, then you need to stop being complacent about MSFS/Asobo and make it loud and known they need to get their SDK in order ... that's what I would and do ... I couldn't careless about yet another MSFS world update and more free aircraft when there are so so many other items that need to be fixed, implemented, and released (my 25 item list is just a start to get MSFS on par with P3D).

Maybe rather than "give it a rest mate", you take your "couldn't care less" (because clearly you do) and direct that energy towards MSFS/Asobo ... hopefully you don't encounter crickets.

Cheers, Rob.

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Steve Prowse
12 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

You seem to be going in circles and/or definitely not happy that FSLabs releasing the P3D version first

Nah Rob just not right I'll continue on with FSX and MSFS.  More than happy with my up grade. BTW I love Concorde on FSX never did buy the P3D version no I just stuck to FSX, really Rob I don't care about P3D it's more a LM thing for always has been.  It is entirely up to FSL how they run their business. 

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Tom van der Elst

This wás a good pro/con discussion.

Since it is now degrading into personal attacks I'm locking it for now.

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