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Concorde visual approaches


Hugh Morten

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Hugh Morten

Dear all

Did Concorde ever perform visual approaches? Just so there is no misunderstanding: I mean published visual approaches like the Belmont visual for 22L at JFK. Or was it considered too risky to use visual cues, given the relatively low altitudes at high speeds and high pitch angles? Does anyone know of the crews asking for one or did they prefer to be vectored to the relevant ILS?

Thanks  

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AdrianSmith

They had a procedure published, and INS waypoints for the Parkway (Canarsie) visual approach to 13L/R at Kennedy

They once flew the aircraft VFR from Prestwick to Glasgow, up the Firth of Clyde then along the river from Greenock, past the Erskine Bridge to a downwind left join for RW 05 at Glasgow.
I can vouch for that one as I was the radar controller on duty at the time!

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Fraser Gale

Yes, she could be flown visually when and if required like any other airliner really, which is one reason the crews did base training circuits including some without ILS/VASI/PAPI/flight director etc. 
 

It’s also how they did quite a bit of messing around at air shows!  There was a visual aid that could be popped up in front of the windscreen to help with the visual picture during final approach and I know of at least one pilot who said he found it quite useful on charters when doing a visual approach to a “strange” runway.  
 

Wasn’t 13L/R at JFK technically a visual approach until RNAV came in anyway…? The Concorde only INS approach to these runways would have been added later in response to RNAV making approaches to these runways possible in lower limits.

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Steve Prowse
52 minutes ago, Fraser Gale said:

There was a visual aid that could be popped up in front of the windscreen to help with the visual picture during final approach and I know of at least one pilot who said he found it quite useful on charters when doing a visual approach to a “strange” runway.  

Everyday try to learn something new....well thanks Frazz I had no clue they had such a visual aid.  I'd love to see what it looked like.

Take care stay safe and well

Steve

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Andrew Wilson
6 minutes ago, Steve Prowse said:

There was a visual aid that could be popped up in front of the windscreen to help with the visual picture during final approach

You also, apparently, had to buy the beers if you used it :lol:

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Hugh Morten

Thanks for all the answers. The reason I ask of course is that I've had a go, left the autothrottle in but switched off all the other automatics. Man, what a challenge to get to the runway!

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Fraser Gale
10 hours ago, Andrew Wilson said:

You also, apparently, had to buy the beers if you used it :lol:

That sounds like the Concorde fleet...but then the captains could afford to buy the beers!

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Fraser Gale
38 minutes ago, Hugh Morten said:

Thanks for all the answers. The reason I ask of course is that I've had a go, left the autothrottle in but switched off all the other automatics. Man, what a challenge to get to the runway!

Using autothrottle makes the aircraft longitudinally unstable because it will fight pitch changes better than a human pilot! It will remain determined to hold the speed exactly regardless of what you do.  In the sim this is made worse by the fact that you can't feel the throttle levers being moved by the autothrottles.  In the real thing you kept your hand on the throttles and if they moved forward you had to be ready to push the stick forward to counteract the pitch up effect.  The best I can recommend in sim land is to listen for the engine noise changing...

If I remember correctly the first simulator session on the conversion course was a normal departure and climb to FL150, some general handling then exploring turns with and without autothrottle and the effects of autothrottle.  Practice makes perfect I guess!

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Fraser Gale
10 hours ago, Steve Prowse said:

Everyday try to learn something new....well thanks Frazz I had no clue they had such a visual aid.  I'd love to see what it looked like.

Take care stay safe and well

Steve

I've drawn (very, very, badly!!) a rough idea of what it looked like from memory.  They were hinged on the combing close to the windscreen and could be pulled up into view.  GBOAG and the simulator (I think) had a different one that was like a Perspex screen with markings on that popped up instead.  I think I spotted a video with a captain using one on a round the world once, I'll try to find it... 

Visulator.png

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Fraser Gale
10 hours ago, Steve Prowse said:

Everyday try to learn something new....well thanks Frazz I had no clue they had such a visual aid.  I'd love to see what it looked like.

Take care stay safe and well

Steve

You can just about see part of it here...

visulator 2.png

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