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Did FSLABS miss the MSFS train with the upcoming FENIX A320 ?


Camille MOUCHEL

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Markus Burkhard
3 hours ago, Eric Fisher said:

FSL would clean up if they released an A330 for MSFS. I would literally uninstall P3D and move immediately to MSFS. 

Just that? For me my life might be complete and I'd retire early... very early :lol:

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Norio Sasaki
1 hour ago, Markus Burkhard said:

Just that? For me my life might be complete and I'd retire early... very early :lol:

It's early to retire.
I want neo.  :D

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David Porrett
5 hours ago, Eric Fisher said:

FSL would clean up if they released an A330 for MSFS. I would literally uninstall P3D and move immediately to MSFS. 

It remains a mystery as to why a 330 has never appeared.

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Danny Moore
It remains a mystery as to why a 330 has never appeared.

I’ve been hoping for a FSLabs A330. I hope we see one in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Alex Pugh
37 minutes ago, Danny Moore said:


I’ve been hoping for a FSLabs A330. I hope we see one in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Took almost two years just to make an EFB. Whatever they're working on, it's not coming anytime soon.

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Markus Burkhard
11 hours ago, Alex Pugh said:

Took almost two years just to make an EFB. Whatever they're working on, it's not coming anytime soon.

You know full well that we developed much more than "just an EFB" in that time frame. Please stick to the facts.

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Aidan le Gras
On 7/17/2021 at 12:43 AM, Paolo Fumagalli said:

My 2 cents...I guess we all agree (or will agree at some point) that MSFS is probably the future. The question is how far that future is. I enjoy P3D, almost as much as I loved FS9 way way back in the days. But it will need a complete rewrite to make it "modern". That does not mean that everyone is going to jump on FS2020 in a matter of days. I was deeply in love with FS9 and "struggled" to move to FSX and ended up waiting until P3D arrived to make the switch. But, looking behind, I can see how much better a newer platform (P3D in that case) was. I guess FS2020 will get there, some day.

FSLabs let me simulate almost everything I want, to revise, to study and to practice ECAM almost like in the FFS. It's all I could ever need at the moment.

That said, I enjoy the competition and I honestly hope to see both Fenix succeed in their project and FSLabs port the A32X into MSFS at some point. More competition, better for us!

But as many keeps pointing out the few features that FSLabs is missing (RTA, Stepclimbs, equitime...that I would love to see simulated as I use them myself IRL), let's also be honest in regards of Fenix that they still overlooked some small details and it's still much an alpha version...

As customer we will win either way. Maybe this will push FSLabs to implement the last few features missing from the A32X or maybe we will see MSFS taking the place of P3D at some point. I'm excited about the future, whatever happens.

 

The amount of times I used the RTA function IRL I can count on my left hand. It is not particularly accurate, and carries the risk that it will bring you as low as green dot speed which can have you in alpha floor if it is achieved while entering a turn on the level out (yes it has happened before). Additionally, you are always better off changing your managed descent speed before TOD and then if need be, adjusting cruise speed to match that with a four digit time marker in the legs page to check the ATC feeder fix time is within - 30 seconds or -1 minute depending on your jurisdiction. 

As for the STEP CLB feature, the way the box works means that this feature almost never shows a listed figure for justification of a step climb, I have literally seen it do so only once in my fourteen years on the aircraft and then on a four and a half hour flight. 

In practice what we usually do is to simply type the higher level in to the PROG page to see how much time and fuel change by climbing higher. If you wish to descend then you need to copy the active in to the SEC-PLN, then place that lower level there to see what the relevant change is. 

Even when there is an improvement in fuel provided by that reaches the 100 kilogram and or 1 minutes that justifies the climb or descent as per FCOM, for some reason it often still states ‘NO OPTIMUM’ for some reason that is not clear from reading FCOM. It will be displayed as an improvement on the legs page either way, hence we refer to that. 

Incidentally, IRL, to go back to the FCU altitude on the PROG page such that it maintains accurate fuel predictions for that level, you can actually type any digit in to the CRZ entry and it will match the FCU altitude although I do not believe this is modelled in this sim (probably not best practice to do so IRL either).

So I guess, I’m suggesting, don’t get too wound up about a series of fairly esoteric features that we don’t even tend to use.

There is many things that still should be improved on this platform such as the engine out flight model which still has some glaring inaccuracies that I have gone to great length to point out over some years now. While this has eventually been acknowledged there is no suggestion that it will ever be fixed. 

Additionally, given that airlines around the world have been successfully petitioning authorities for RNP-AR approaches and these are becoming ever more prevalent, I am surprised that this has yet to be implemented. I am aware that it is on the list of things to do.  

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Steven Silva

Personally, it hurts me that P3D dies next to the legendary FS9 and FSX because with the FS9 and FSX I began my aeronautical studies as a commercial pilot and P3D together with FSL served as training for the A320 and even so I continue to practice in it. I think that P3D can give a lot of war in simulation for another 3 years as MSFS becomes a true successor to the P3D and XP simulator. It saddens me to see that many say that FSL is not as great as they say simply because the FENIX looks better. for me it is a remastered copy of the MSFS a320 default. I do not mean that there are several things missing from the FSL WTF in systems that were added with the expansion of the SL but I know that they will be added not too late. I just want to say the following. FSL and the other developers do not say goodbye yet to P3D please

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Stu Antonio
7 hours ago, Steven Silva said:

but I know that they will be added not too late

Yeah, maybe at some point in 2022. Norman stated the won't have time for that this year.

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Bob Zolto

MSFS needs more than better airliners -- less cumbersome camera and peripheral systems. 

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Anatoly Briskin
8 minutes ago, Bob Zolto said:

MSFS needs more than better airliners -- less cumbersome camera and peripheral systems. 

FS camera is not good but it is not absolutely horrific compared to P3D, it resembles XP in many respects just not as refined.  The Peripherals mappings are good in many respects. You've got profiles even though they are manual and you've got ability to map honeycomb rotaries natively instead of doing lvars and simvars and honeycomb profilers.  It could use some love but it's not atrocious.  Now the planes,and default GPS's and default AP behavior now that that's a different story.  

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Shannon Loder

I was thinking...Leftis keeps saying Google has all the info. Is there something on Google about FSLABS and MSFS that he is :rolleyes: alluding to?

"We were very happy to read the announcement of the new Microsoft Flight Simulator platform (which most now affectionately call "MSFS 2020"). It signals the return of one of the most prolific products that our good friends in Redmond have developed and we are all very excited to take a preview look into what looks to be technologies bringing the simulated world to a new level of immersion. We've seen the same previews as you have and they are certainly breathtaking! We cannot, however, provide any details or answer any questions about "MSFS 2020" at the present time, other than to say that our excitement about this next version is the same as yours!"

To me that quote says it all................

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Paolo Fumagalli
22 hours ago, Aidan le Gras said:

 

The amount of times I used the RTA function IRL I can count on my left hand. It is not particularly accurate, and carries the risk that it will bring you as low as green dot speed which can have you in alpha floor if it is achieved while entering a turn on the level out (yes it has happened before). Additionally, you are always better off changing your managed descent speed before TOD and then if need be, adjusting cruise speed to match that with a four digit time marker in the legs page to check the ATC feeder fix time is within - 30 seconds or -1 minute depending on your jurisdiction. 

...

So I guess, I’m suggesting, don’t get too wound up about a series of fairly esoteric features that we don’t even tend to use.

...

 

Actually, both RTA and step climb are two functions we often use in European airspace. RTA both active and passive (pre-T/O with with the estimated takeoff time) when delays to recover and expected delays at destination (London TMA, eg). Step climb I agree with you, mysterious, but on 3/4 hours flight or longer to/from Canaries/Egypt/Cyprus...it actually works and gives pretty good estimates. Yes I do also in the PROG page sometimes, but gets less accurate if the legs are longer in my experience.

They are not "esoteric" features, they are there and some airlines use them. Maybe they are less known or understood but that doesn't mean they are less important, I would still be happy to see them simulated at some point.

I agree with you about the RNP-AR but that is a much more complicated argument because it depends also on outside factors, like nav database precision and aircraft capability. I can see why this is a longer development feature than some FMGC "old and basic" function.

About the remaining fixes to go, completely agree with you 100%. But let's be honest the FSLabs is at a very good level of stability and fidelity at the moment.

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Aidan le Gras
7 hours ago, Paolo Fumagalli said:

 

Actually, both RTA and step climb are two functions we often use in European airspace. RTA both active and passive (pre-T/O with with the estimated takeoff time) when delays to recover and expected delays at destination (London TMA, eg). Step climb I agree with you, mysterious, but on 3/4 hours flight or longer to/from Canaries/Egypt/Cyprus...it actually works and gives pretty good estimates. Yes I do also in the PROG page sometimes, but gets less accurate if the legs are longer in my experience.

They are not "esoteric" features, they are there and some airlines use them. Maybe they are less known or understood but that doesn't mean they are less important, I would still be happy to see them simulated at some point.

I agree with you about the RNP-AR but that is a much more complicated argument because it depends also on outside factors, like nav database precision and aircraft capability. I can see why this is a longer development feature than some FMGC "old and basic" function.

About the remaining fixes to go, completely agree with you 100%. But let's be honest the FSLabs is at a very good level of stability and fidelity at the moment.

 

Hi Paolo,

You guys are probably holding more than we are in Australia and New Zealand so that would make sense. I also like having greater control over my speed, but I am glad you put it to good use. 

Make no mistake, FS Labs is currently the only platform that is even close to RW for Airbus but I do hope that changes in the future, it would be nice to see some competition. 

I was moving away from using it altogether but now as I have had it for some time but I have recently moved over to P3D 5.2 to check out what VR looked like given how useless 4.5VR was......it's quite an improvement now in my opinion, in fact I am getting smooth performance even for ORBX NZQN with weather too. I never thought I would see that. Now I can fly a circuit looking out the window to check spacing and timing and even fly an engine flameout approach with a decent chance of eyeballing the correct profile. For a HP Reverb with quite high settings it's pretty impressive on such a complex aircraft. 

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peter kelberg
14 hours ago, Bob Zolto said:

MSFS needs more than better airliners -- less cumbersome camera and peripheral systems. 

you know  you  can map  your  own camera  views  in the  cockpit in msfs :)  quite  easy  to  do actually

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Vincent Twisker

As long as MSFS does not provide proper multiscreen support, similar to viewgroups in P3D, my homecockpit will run with FSLabs on P3D anyway. No matter how good Fenix may eventually turn out to be.

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Nicolaus Malmgren

MSFS hype and money talk.

I have P3d and use the most advanced aircraft in it. Tell me why i should throw away my invested money for a so called microsoft flightsimulator. I have tested that so called simulator. and got refund for it. IMHO MSFS is eyecandy only and far away from a simulator today. I see again some unserious company walk over to that plattform and make some bussiness again. I will never in my life do some more bussiness with some of those company. In future probebly MSFS will be close to a simulator.. 

However i stay with this P3d long time.. and fully happy with it. Thanks to FSLABS for that.

 

 

 

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Mark Wolpert
On 7/19/2021 at 1:50 AM, peter kelberg said:

you know  you  can map  your  own camera  views  in the  cockpit in msfs :)  quite  easy  to  do actually

Peter, maybe you can answer this question for me.  I have mapped various cameras to keys on my keypad  (So 8 is the overhead, 2 is the pedastil, 4 is the throttle view, etc).  This works great but when I switch liveries on the same aircraft then I seem to lose all assignments, how is this fixed?

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peter kelberg
15 hours ago, Mark Wolpert said:

Peter, maybe you can answer this question for me.  I have mapped various cameras to keys on my keypad  (So 8 is the overhead, 2 is the pedastil, 4 is the throttle view, etc).  This works great but when I switch liveries on the same aircraft then I seem to lose all assignments, how is this fixed?

i  came  across  this  as well lol  found out  you need  to  do  for  each  livery   a  pain  though  but  least it  doesnt  take  long

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Stu Antonio
On 7/19/2021 at 7:50 AM, peter kelberg said:

you know  you  can map  your  own camera  views  in the  cockpit in msfs :)  quite  easy  to  do actually

The problem I have with this is the fact that the default view apparently can't be deleted. So if I map my custom "Main View" to a key, it will always switch back to default view when I hit that key again. That for me is super annoying. 

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Bob Zolto

Someday, maybe, Chaseplane will make the move to MSFS and things will be simple enough.   I find the camera present camera system much too annoying.

 

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peter kelberg
20 hours ago, Stu Antonio said:

The problem I have with this is the fact that the default view apparently can't be deleted. So if I map my custom "Main View" to a key, it will always switch back to default view when I hit that key again. That for me is super annoying. 

 

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Stu Antonio
14 minutes ago, peter kelberg said:

 

Thanks. Yeah, I've watched this (and other videos) already, I'm fully aware of how to setup custom views, but it doesn't solve the issue I have with this. You can set up a view and bind to to a key, (let's say to "ctrl-1") but hitting that again will always switch backt to another (default) view. Like in chaseplane, I want nothing to happen when I hit "ctrl-1" while in "ctrl-1-view". Doesn't seem to work in MSFS, like others confirmed in the MSFS-forum (Where this discussion probably also belongs, sorry FSL :rolleyes::)), when hitting that view key repeatedly, it will always switch back and forth between the set view and another view. Frustrating.

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Antonis Kastrinakis

Even though I do not have the "latest and greatest" flightsimming platform (MSFS) I have been following the Fenix upcoming offering with quite a bit of interest.

After a couple of beers and some thought I am beginning to think that two high fidelity (study level) sims of the same aircraft, namely the A320, simply cannot fit into the MSFS ecosphere. Since FSL has yet to announce anything or, for that matter, even hint at their own 320 making its way to MSFS, I get the feeling that maybe, just maybe, FSL could be working on a larger member of the Airbus family for MSFS.

As the topic says, pure speculation. Your thoughts?

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Stu Antonio

Interesting thought (btw, what kind of beers did you have? :) ).
I too wonder what FSLs plans are, and I'm getting the feeling they are maybe "muscled out" of an A320 for MFS. This persistent silence and secrecy, the overall calmer tone after the SLs released (are they even working on the A320X anymore?), no mention of updates or fixes or next steps, just Norman's statement that they have a full schedule that doesn't allow for any new features (i.e. EFB for WTF) within this year etc.... It's all very fuzzy and strange to me. What are they working on? I know there are Concorde lovers out there, but are they really concentrating all resources on the Concorde for P3D right now? No idea.... And tbh, even if they bring - let's say - the EFB for the WTFs next summer or so, ... I guess by this time, my P3D times will probably be over, and the Fenix will most likely be the trigger for a permanent switch, at least for me. It's a bit sad too, I'd like to stay loyal to FSLabs and all, I really like this community. But maybe they really missed the train, maybe they couldn't find those helping developers they were looking for in the forum, maybe they'll just stick to P3D and will seize ops some day, who knows. But time's running out and looking at all the developments for MSFS, P3D is already starting to feel outdated. I don't like MSFS that much. But I'm slowly starting to.

Pure speculations.

:)

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Bob Zolto

Hope they don't go the way of some others and forsake P3d (longer range Airbi) for the money pile of MSFS.  That pile might diminish once the Xbox "gamers" tire and/or find high-fidelity aircraft beyond their means or interest. 

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Antonis Kastrinakis
16 hours ago, Stu Antonio said:

Interesting thought (btw, what kind of beers did you have? :) ).

As a matter of fact, Stu...Mythos. Yes, we do have a sh*tload of different beers here (some excellent, some good and some just plain awful) but I keep finding myself drawn to my old homeland product. That, and some Plomari ouzo out in our alfresco area and if I shut my eyes I can almost feel and smell the waterfront breeze of the old country. Good times B)

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Michele Benedetti

I seriously think that FsLabs will not port their A32X series onto MSFS, and I also think they'll instead be doing a long range Airbus for MSFS as soon as the new Concorde comes out :) I hope I am right but at this stage nobody knows! :):):)

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Daniel Jaffe

There's no question that Fenix is getting a lot of attention.  The link with Prosim, the very active Discord, website, livestreams and now a Youtube video are certainly helping it grow an audience.  I don't think it hurts that Blackbox and KatiePilot are volunteering their time too.  But the idea, only one year into MSFS, that you can't have more than one A32x developer in a market that large seems premature.  Fenix has to deliver.  PMDG has to deliver (on Boeing obviously).  And even then, other developers, including FS Labs, may find a way to do it better, even if it comes later.  Thus, multiple products in the same segment might thrive if each iteration of the product pushes what can be done in the sim. 

All that said, iniBuilds, and now Fenix, are definitely on the leading edge of frequent, meaningful, interesting and excitement-building development updates.  FSLabs could stand to step outside their usual, relatively quiet, box, and do more to let this community -- and especially those who've never heard of FS Labs -- know what grand plans are in the works.

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Timm Rehberg
On 7/17/2021 at 3:01 PM, Markus Burkhard said:

You know full well that we developed much more than "just an EFB" in that time frame. Please stick to the facts.

Just as of that, I don´t understand any longer why FSL is so quiet about the future. We know the Concorde is coming (is it? When? 2022?) however I don´t think 100% of the team is working on it.

In my opinion and what I hear from other flight simmers, FSL should really write some words about the future - even though its not the favorite thing FSL ever did. ;) 

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Lefteris Kalamaras
1 hour ago, Timm Rehberg said:

Just as of that, I don´t understand any longer why FSL is so quiet about the future. We know the Concorde is coming (is it? When? 2022?) however I don´t think 100% of the team is working on it.

In my opinion and what I hear from other flight simmers, FSL should really write some words about the future - even though its not the favorite thing FSL ever did. ;) 

Timm,

as is my new favorite quote, "silence does not mean quiet". We're leaving it at that for now.

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Dave Woycek
On 8/21/2021 at 4:46 PM, Bob Zolto said:

Hope they don't go the way of some others and forsake P3d (longer range Airbi) for the money pile of MSFS.  That pile might diminish once the Xbox "gamers" tire and/or find high-fidelity aircraft beyond their means or interest. 

My thoughts exactly.

The "gamer" crowd will move on after a while, leaving only the small lot of enthusiasts, as it always used to be.
What Microsoft will do with MSFS once the cash flow starts getting thinner - nobody knows. With shutting down their first flight simulator product line, MS have proved that they can be quite rigorous about business once the numbers aren't as expected. I don't trust MS when it comes to flight simulation products.

With a considerable investment in the flightsim hobby, I am tired of switching simulators (FSX -> P3D -> potentially MSFS), upgrade hardware, re-buy addons, and then tinker with and work out all the quirks before having smoothly running sim experience again, only to find that once everything runs reasonably well, the next sim is around the corner and addon developers curtail or even cease development for the current platform.

Back then, FSX was abandoned, so there was no other way than to move on. With P3D, it is a different story, it is actively developed and maintained. 

There are still many open issues with the current FSL A320 series on P3D which I'd love to see implemented and/or fixed.

Currently not too excited about MSFS personally ...
 

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Dave Woycek
On 7/15/2021 at 7:20 PM, Stu Antonio said:

I have the feeling P3D is the past, MSFS the future.

I am sure you are aware what MS did to their first flight simulation product? There may be no Lockheed Martin standing by this time to pick up the shards in case MSFS gets dumped by MS.
Do you trust them to be the future, even - after the initial hype - the user base shrinks to the hardcore flightsim crowd?

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Timm Rehberg
2 hours ago, Lefteris Kalamaras said:

Timm,

as is my new favorite quote, "silence does not mean quiet". We're leaving it at that for now.

Of course it doesn't mean it. Nobody in here is hopefully thinking FSL is doing nothing except for the Concorde :D But whats the problem giving a hint or specific infos to the community?
Especially everything from the roadmap is "done".

But nevermind - we still trust in you to come around with something nice and spicy (hopefully to FSExpo). :D  

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Ramon De Valencia
1 hour ago, Dave Woycek said:

I am sure you are aware what MS did to their first flight simulation product? There may be no Lockheed Martin standing by this time to pick up the shards in case MSFS gets dumped by MS.
Do you trust them to be the future, even - after the initial hype - the user base shrinks to the hardcore flightsim crowd?

I will still have my P3D installed to be ready when that happens. But, everyday I am spending more time (and money) in MSFS than on P3D. My fslabs fleet are mainly used on Florida and GB TrueEarth or at night and without looking out of the cockpit.

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John Price

I don’t personally see how people have just ported over to MSFS yet; there are no detailed, study-level add-ons for it at the mo! Apart perhaps from one very old 4-engined bird. The FENIX one looks lovely, definitely. no reason we can’t have both.

I can see why the FSLabs chaps keep things quiet - it avoids disappointment if testing has to be extended because of some previously unseen niggle and just generally avoids the clamour, hole-picking etc. 

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Ross McDonagh
On 7/12/2021 at 1:44 PM, Stu Antonio said:

I really hope they do. I always thought IF I finally switch to MSFS one day, FSLabs will be the reason. Not so sure anymore, but I still keep my hopes up. At some point, FSL will have to tell us what they plan to do... 

I’m right with you Stu.  I haven’t gone yet but the A220 and aforementioned A320 that are under development have my eye on switching in the future.  I just want all the integrations that FSL provides us.  Those extra details like gate assignments, AOC service, GSX etc etc. I’ve been cheating on my beloved Fifi with a Guppy and a Madpuppy (and a Maddog which is the closest of the bunch) lately and it’s just not the same. 

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fahdriyami

I missed the FSLabs A320 the moment I started with MSFS during the beta period. But less so now that the FBW A320 is available and progressing nicely, and I bet even less so once I get my hands on the Fenix by the looks of it.

Definitely think FSLabs is missing out if they havent been working on it behind-the-scenes.

I've completely uninstalled P3D (after years on it and over $2000 worth of add-ons) for MSFS. No study-level airliners yet, but the sim has made me fall in love with VFR flying all over again. It's just been so beautiful I can happily wait longer for the airliners from PMDG and Qualitywings to make their way to it.

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Steve Prowse
1 hour ago, fahdriyami said:

I've completely uninstalled P3D (after years on it and over $2000 worth of add-ons) for MSFS.

I’m using MSFS too, like you I’m really enjoying it.  But I’ve kept FSX so I can still use Concorde.  I’ll stay with both sims….until….I get Concorde for MSFS. :D

Stay safe and well

Steve

 

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Carl_Beeby

 

Thanks to FS Labs for allowing this thread. 

Since about 2012, I've naturally migrated to x-plane - another poster mentioned installation/maintenance and I agree, I find it more straightforward for me. FSLabs is the reason why I have P3D (I remember LSLabs P3D pricing taking into account the investment made in their products on other platforms) 

For Airbus simulation I use ToLiss far more than FSLabs and I do not miss the fewer systems that the Toliss has. 

I mainly fly tubeliners and I am watching x-plane aircraft developments with interest as there are several long haul aircraft in development.

Plenty of views in the above posts, for me I will consider investing (money & time) in the new platform when an aircraft (likely Airbus as I have enough Boeings in x-plane to fills my needs!) is released. But I will let others go first and read reviews etc. :) 

I remember too well MS abandoning Flightsim and if I decide to buy MSFS, I doubt it will ever be my sole sim. But let's see what the future brings. Of course newer simmers might not even remember FSX!

 

 

 

 

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Phil Brewer
On 9/7/2021 at 2:22 PM, fahdriyami said:

I missed the FSLabs A320 the moment I started with MSFS during the beta period. But less so now that the FBW A320 is available and progressing nicely, and I bet even less so once I get my hands on the Fenix by the looks of it.

Definitely think FSLabs is missing out if they havent been working on it behind-the-scenes.

I've completely uninstalled P3D (after years on it and over $2000 worth of add-ons) for MSFS. No study-level airliners yet, but the sim has made me fall in love with VFR flying all over again. It's just been so beautiful I can happily wait longer for the airliners from PMDG and Qualitywings to make their way to it.

Same here. I must admit I was reluctant to delete all my P3D stuff but in the end I did. I have also fallen completely in love with VFR.

I ignored GA for years but now with some high fidelity models out there this has become a fascinating pleasure. So much so I have gone to places in real life in the UK to check them out after flying over in the simulation and I was not disappointed.

I still keep my A320 flights on the go with the stuff from FBW but I do hope FSL port over.

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