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A32X-SL , landing vs A32X exploration


Michael Petersen

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Stu Antonio

Looks like I’ll just have to keep practicing ^_^

From an interesting article regarding differences of NEOs/CEOs/SLs:

Sharklets:

[…] The handling characteristics of the aircraft should not be any different than those already in the fleet. A basic rule of Airbus is for all their aircraft to handle the same, despite the differences in weight and size, thanks to their control laws. Pilot’s comment that an aircraft with Sharklets can ‘float’ during the flare, where the aircraft will hold off. This can be attributed to the extra lift from a Sharklet wing overcoming the same amount of weight as well as the ground effect from having a slightly larger wingspan.

 

Source: https://airlinegeeks.com/2017/06/16/the-neo-kid-in-the-fleet-whats-new-for-the-pilot/

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Stu Antonio

Rose the nose 1 deg at 30 ft.
Vs went from -700 to 0 in <2sec.
Floated for 4 sec until it dropped on to the concrete with a vs of -300.

I just can‘t get use to it. 

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Tom van der Elst

Strange Stu,

I have no problems landing the SL without floating.

I fly to LGHI/Chios a lot and I have no problems landing the thing.

Admittedly, it has a tendency to float but if you are on the ball and focused it shouldn't.

I flare at the Retard call, not earlier, and that seems to work out ok.

 

some of the landing rates the past few days:

AEE - 1505626 A380 AEE080 LGTS / SKG LGHI / JKH SX-DNA -175 FPM 00:45 165   26th Jul 2021  
 
AEE - 1505494 A3531 AEE34 EDDF / FRA LGTS / SKG SX-DNA   02:03     26th Jul 2021  
 
AEE - 1505034 A3480 AEE480 LGRP / RHO EDDF / FRA SX-DND -158 FPM 03:02 265   25th Jul 2021  
 
AEE - 1504720 A395 AEE095 LGSM / SMI LGRP / RHO SX-DND -166 FPM 00:27 174   25th Jul 2021  
 
AEE - 1504186 A3248 AEE248 LGAV / ATH LGSM / SMI SX-DND -189 FPM

 

 

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Stu Antonio
3 minutes ago, Tom van der Elst said:

I flare at the Retard call

Yeah, I guess that's what I need to get hammered into my head.
I'm just so muscle-programmed to start flaring between 20 and 30, like the FCOM recommends and like I've been doing it for years in the WTFs now. Really need to get this "fly it on to the runway"-concept down :)

Thanks for sharing your experience.

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Riccardo_Parachini

I think 20/30’ is always a good ballpark, later could be late. But my advice is always focus on the closure rate and adjust accordingly. Just an initial input and a later finetune should work perfectly.


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Richard Le Page

I find the new spoiler logic too severe. after touchdown when the spoilers deploy it slams the nosewheel down too hard unless you hold it off with strong  back pressure on the joystick. Worse with the 321. don't have any problems flaring though, just the spoiler effect ruins the landing. Anyone else noticed this?

I did report this a few months to the developers and they said it would be looked into, Haven't heard anything else on this issue.

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Camille MOUCHEL
I find the new spoiler logic too severe. after touchdown when the spoilers deploy it slams the nosewheel down too hard unless you hold it off with strong  back pressure on the joystick. Worse with the 321. don't have any problems flaring though, just the spoiler effect ruins the landing. Anyone else noticed this?
I did report this a few months to the developers and they said it would be looked into, Haven't heard anything else on this issue.

Just need to be patient I guess.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
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Tom van der Elst
12 hours ago, Richard Le Page said:

I find the new spoiler logic too severe. after touchdown when the spoilers deploy it slams the nosewheel down too hard unless you hold it off with strong  back pressure on the joystick. Worse with the 321. don't have any problems flaring though, just the spoiler effect ruins the landing. Anyone else noticed this?

I did report this a few months to the developers and they said it would be looked into, Haven't heard anything else on this issue.

This behaviour I also do not recognize.

I do not need massive amounts of back pressure on the joystick to

prevent the nose from slamming down on the 321.

I flare at Retard call, and keep the stick in the last position,

then when I hear decel, spoilers and all that stuff the plane settles slowly on the nose gear.

No slamming anywhere unless I want to slam something.

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Stu Antonio

Little followup on my floating frustration. I now seem to get the hang of it. My last 15 landings were pretty much perfect with landing rates between 120-190 fpm right in the t/d zone and wirhout floatings, even in rougher weather conditions. And this without changing fundamental Airbus techniques (like generally cutting thrust 30ft higher than the WTFs or start flaring at 10ft etc).

What helped me a lot was adapting my flaring technique a bit from a progressive backpressure (like the FCOM recommends and which works well in the WTFs so far) to a more „soft pumping“ kinda movement, holding it only at the last 5ft or so. Plus I gave the elevator axis a good curve in the FSL settings which also helps to avoid overflaring.

I already fear switching back to the WTFs, (those first landings will probably make Mr. O‘Leary proud :D) but for now I think I made my peace with the sharklet-flare ….

Cheers

 

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Darren Howie

If anyone learns the secret of consistent good landings in the 320 family i'd suggest writing an article for the Airbus family series "Getting to grips with".

In 16 years and 10,000 hours i still dont know the secret but im sure there are about 10000 to 15000 Airbus pilots who would like to know how to land them smoothly every time.

It just doesnt happen...they do keep you coming back for more however.

 

 

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Stu Antonio
4 minutes ago, Darren Howie said:

If anyone learns the secret of consistent good landings in the 320 family i'd suggest writing an article for the Airbus family series "Getting to grips with".

In 16 years and 10,000 hours i still dont know the secret but im sure there are about 10000 to 15000 Airbus pilots who would like to know how to land them smoothly every time.

It just doesnt happen...they do keep you coming back for more however.

 

 

I really appreciate and enjoy your professional insights on all of this stuff! Thanks.

What's also a little unfortunate is the fact that we as flight simmers have only the v/s or "landing rate" available to judge the smoothness of our landings. At least that's how most of us (and virtual airline systems / flight logs etc.) evaluate our performance. Like you and others mentioned before, this is not always the value to look at and real pilots do not really care or can really check their v/s on touchdown, because a) the have their butts, meaning they can of course feel it, and b) it's not always connected to the smoothness or "G's" you feel upon landing. I once read an interesting article on all the things that influence how hard you feel a landing, from the weight of the plane, the size of the wheels, the suspension, runway, up to the point where you are seated in the cabin.... So this has not always to do with the vertical speed on touchdown. 

Anyway, we only have this value for now, and even if there's a G-force that can be measured in the sim, I've been told it's very unreliable.

 

 

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Paul Parkin

The thing with V/S as well is that it doesn't account for sloped runways.

For example, at GDN if you're landing on RW29 part of the TDZ is actually downhill in XP11. To try and get a decent landing in the TDZ there you end up actually chasing the runway and increasing your fpm to catch up to it!

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