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P3D v4 or v5. Which version will be best for 64-bit Concorde?


Ray Proudfoot

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Ray Proudfoot

FS Labs,

You've announced Concorde will be developed for both P3D v4 and v5. When you're in a position to could you advise which version will be best in terms of frames per second and overall fluidity? I have no plans to move from v4.5 unless there are significant benefits in moving to v5. I imagine I'm not alone given the maturity of v4.

Thanks.

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Andrew Wilson

Hi Ray,

Well - there are a few reasons to choose P3D v5 over P3D v4: their implementation of PBR is heavily optimised and improved. It truly looks better in V5. Dynamic lights are also optimised in v5 - so you'll see a performance gain there. 

The pitfalls are, that on lesser GPU cards - DX12 is referencing your GPU memory. If your card has less than 11Gb of onboard memory, you're likely going to need to consider your settings a little more. Not an issue - plenty of people are doing this. 

That said, I see you're on a 1080Ti - same as I am - so personally, I would go to V5. Obviously the new version is being developed on P3D v5 at this time, so it will take advantage of the available technologies the most recent version of P3D offers - and some of these, inevitably, might not be supported when flying with P3D v4. 

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Ray Proudfoot

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for that info. The issue of Dynamic Lighting has been a bugbear for me (and many others I guess) with v4. It will be nice to have a solution to that. I have seen the many posts on AvSim about DX12 eating large chunks of VRAM but subsequent updates seem to have improved things.

I've been holding off v5 because I would have to buy the PMDG737 a second time and up to now had no compelling reason to do so. Sorry for mentioning that here.  ;)

But v5 will be around for quite a while and finally I'll be able to fly Concorde in my monitor's native resolution because as you must know running at 1920*1080 is grim on a 4K display.

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Fraser Gale

I have to mention that v5 has it's issues for some of us though, and I hope LM are trying to make it work better "out of the box" than it currently does for some users.  It seems to be pot luck as to whether settings and setups that have worked fine for all previous versions, work for you or not.  Even with plenty VRAM, GPU, CPU in hand the fps cycling up to over 100 then down to less than 10 with no addons installed can't be normal!

I'm currently still fiddling with the basics just to make it useable.....

In fact that is this evening's job!

 

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Ray Proudfoot

@Fraser Gale, one thing that has made performance much better for me is changing my monitor refresh rate to 30Hz. With VSync enabled in P3D (and fps set to unlimited) that places far less demands on the GPU and 30fps is fine for me.

There is some mouse lag but that’s a minor inconvenience compared to the smoothness 30Hz brings. Try it if your monitor can handle it.

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Fraser Gale
15 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Fraser Gale, one thing that has made performance much better for me is changing my monitor refresh rate to 30Hz. With VSync enabled in P3D (and fps set to unlimited) that places far less demands on the GPU and 30fps is fine for me.

There is some mouse lag but that’s a minor inconvenience compared to the smoothness 30Hz brings. Try it if your monitor can handle it.

Thanks for the tip Ray, but as I said in my post, all previous versions worked just fine the way things are.  I've always run at 30Hz anyway and I'm not over-taxing the GPU because it's running at 8% load! CPU only around 30%.  

When you go to v5 you might be lucky, but then again...

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Ray Proudfoot

Fraser, if you're referring to Airbus performance in v5 that's not something I can comment on really. The GPU load in v3 is probably around what you say but because Riva Tuner SS doesn't work with Concorde loaded I can't check.

Glad to see you're another advocate of 30Hz. :)

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Fraser Gale
19 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Fraser, if you're referring to Airbus performance in v5 that's not something I can comment on really. The GPU load in v3 is probably around what you say but because Riva Tuner SS doesn't work with Concorde loaded I can't check.

Glad to see you're another advocate of 30Hz. :)

Ray, I'm talking about a clean install with NO ADDONS...!  

I haven't yet got it stable enough to load in the Airbus, or anything else for that matter.  I have a couple more settings to try but the scrolling fps problem is something I've never seen before with any aircraft in any previous sim version, which is why I'm just saying to be aware when/if you purchase. 

In fact if you do plan on "upgrading" - cough, cough - I would suggest doing it soon so that you have time to tweak it before a certain bird tries to fly faster than the sun inside it!!!

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Ray Proudfoot

Fraser, Does your clean install include Hotfix 1? I've asked about v5 on AvSim and nothing untoward was flagged.

Yes, the timing of when to purchase is on my mind. Other than being released this year I haven't a clue how close to finishing the work FSL are. I'm not asking because I know the answer. :D

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Fraser Gale

Yes, I'm on v5.1 

I have found a couple of other people report the same issue on other forums but nobody seems to get to the bottom of it.  I didn't get the time to play with it tonight like I thought I would, so it will have to wait another day. 

No harm in buying the sim now surely?  Unless you have a shortage of memory you can keep the other versions running like I have.  

She'll be worth the wait, that's all you're gonna get...;)

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Ray Proudfoot

I would imagine LM will resolve it at some point. I’m giving it serious consideration but transitioning scenery from v4 to v5 is time consuming.

My VRAM usage in v4 rarely goes above 5Gb so there’s enough spare for v5. And there’s enough space on my SSD. Chewing it over.

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Ray Proudfoot

I splashed out on v5 this afternoon. Is Concorde ready yet? :D

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Norman Blackburn
1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Is Concorde ready yet? :D

Yes*.  We have to keep it our little secret though :D 

* This may not be quite true.

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Fraser Gale
2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I splashed out on v5 this afternoon. Is Concorde ready yet? :D

Where is the eye roll emoji..........?!

She hasn't flown since 2003, it takes time to re-activate the already terrible hydraulics you know...oh, you mean the FSLabs one...well, it is #### #### ### ###### #### ###!

:D

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Ray Proudfoot
1 hour ago, Norman Blackburn said:

Yes*.  We have to keep it our little secret though :D 
 

I’m sure you know my tongue was firmly in my virtual cheek when I asked the question Norman. ;) I’ve been around long enough to know nothing is said until it’s fully ready. Just Lefteris’s way of keeping us guessing. With his love of secrecy he should be working for Greece’s equivalent of MI5.

Lots of scenery to install so once your fancy Airbus video is finished perhaps we can have one for Concorde. I fondly remember the first one which must be around 10 years ago! Crikey! :o

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Norman Blackburn
1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I’m sure you know my tongue was firmly in my virtual cheek when I asked the question Norman. 

Absolutely Ray.  Hence my whole reply.

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Steve Prowse
On 2/23/2021 at 10:14 PM, Fraser Gale said:

Ray, I'm talking about a clean install with NO ADDONS...!  

I haven't yet got it stable enough to load in the Airbus, or anything else for that matter.  I have a couple more settings to try but the scrolling fps problem is something I've never seen before with any aircraft in any previous sim version, which is why I'm just saying to be aware when/if you purchase. 

In fact if you do plan on "upgrading" - cough, cough - I would suggest doing it soon so that you have time to tweak it before a certain bird tries to fly faster than the sun inside it!!!

 

11 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I splashed out on v5 this afternoon. Is Concorde ready yet? :D

Given what Frazz said, and since we’ve had no information about the new Concorde, I must ask Ray; was that a wise splash out?
 

keep safe and well

Steve.

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Ray Proudfoot
4 hours ago, Steve Prowse said:

Given what Frazz said, and since we’ve had no information about the new Concorde, I must ask Ray; was that a wise splash out?
keep safe and well

Steve.

Hi Steve,

I am a regular visitor to the AvSim forums and have read a lot about v5. Whilst there were early problems with the initial release the update to 5.1 appears to have resolved many of the problems. Remember the main purpose of this version was the change to DX12 which moves more processing to the GPU. Pete Dowson and others have reported a significant increase of fps - at least 20%. Why stay with v4?

Andrew has given me enough info to make an informed decision. Release is definitely this year and v5 will make the most of the PBR effects.

Nice to see you on this board Steve. :)

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Norman Blackburn
11 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Release is definitely this year

Hi Ray,

Just to manage expectations, and in keeping with everything else we do, as far as I recall there is nothing saying when Concorde will be released.   It would of course be lovely but please understand its a hugely complex machine.  

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Ray Proudfoot
5 minutes ago, Norman Blackburn said:

Hi Ray,

Just to manage expectations, and in keeping with everything else we do, as far as I recall there is nothing saying when Concorde will be released.   It would of course be lovely but please understand its a hugely complex machine.  

This is taken from Lefteris's announcement in December 2020... "I would be amiss not to also mention the work that has been going into the Concorde-X which will also be released this coming year - there are impressive features added which deserve their own release note, so I will be doing that at some point soon."

Another announcement would be appreciated if anything has changed.

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Norman Blackburn

Hi Ray,

We have already beaten LK to within an inch of his life for that slip.  Like I say, we would love it to be this year just as much as you but not at the cost of quality. We will try to keep things updated through the development cycle.

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Ray Proudfoot

A slip??? Then why wasn't it immediately corrected? That is very remiss of him.

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Andrew Wilson

Ray, we’ve known each other a long time. Please trust me when I say, relax about the new Concorde title. We’ve got some of the best people in the industry working on it (devs/advisers).

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John Barnes

@Andrew Wilson

25 minutes ago, Andrew Wilson said:

Ray, we’ve known each other a long time.  We’ve got some of the best people in the industry working on it (devs/advisors).

We have?

Which bit is the front again?

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Ray Proudfoot

Hi Andrew,

I have every faith FS Labs will produce a Concorde second to none. My argument isn’t about your skills. It’s about the very mixed messages coming out. I’m totally confused about when we can expect to see Concorde available to buy.

If Lefteris made a statement which is now impossible to meet - that there is no real likelihood of Concorde being released this year - then why wasn’t it amended? And Norman’s “little secret” quip was totally lost on me.

I’ve now bought v5 based on you saying PBR effects will look their best in that version and Lefteris’s announcement back in December that it will be released “next year” meaning 2021.

No one is asking for release dates but if there’s no realistic prospect of Concorde being available this year then why not just say so? I know it is Lefteris who makes these announcements so surely now would be a good time to let us know where things are. It’s three months since he said there would be a further announcement “soon” so now seems like a good time to bring us up to date.

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Lefteris Kalamaras
1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

This is taken from Lefteris's announcement in December 2020... "I would be amiss not to also mention the work that has been going into the Concorde-X which will also be released this coming year - there are impressive features added which deserve their own release note, so I will be doing that at some point soon."

Another announcement would be appreciated if anything has changed.

Let me amend the statement thus:

 

...which we hope will be released this year (but might not), barring any unforeseen circumstances, changes, hiccups, slips, life itself or any other caveat lawyers could put in written contracts, which my previous announcement wasn't. :)

Hope that covers you!

The real meaning is, we are working on it and when we have more to say, we will.

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James Coombe
18 minutes ago, John Barnes said:

@Andrew Wilson

We have?

Which bit is the front again?

Does the 'pointy end' help you? :D

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Norman Blackburn
1 minute ago, James Coombe said:

Does the 'pointy end' help you? :D

Both ends are pointy......

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James Coombe
41 minutes ago, Norman Blackburn said:

Both ends are pointy......

Learn something new everyday :-) 

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Steve Prowse

So in summary we have;

2 hours ago, Norman Blackburn said:

Hi Ray,

Just to manage expectations, and in keeping with everything else we do, as far as I recall there is nothing saying when Concorde will be released.   It would of course be lovely but please understand its a hugely complex machine.  

Norman doesn’t think FSL has ever stated when Concorde will be released.....but wait guys

1 hour ago, Norman Blackburn said:

Hi Ray,

We have already beaten LK to within an inch of his life for that slip.  Like I say, we would love it to be this year just as much as you but not at the cost of quality. We will try to keep things updated through the development cycle.

He does!  Seems that’s the boss slipped!.....ok....

Nah just a windup

55 minutes ago, John Barnes said:

Norman is being Norman. Any changes to original timetables will be OFFICIALLY posted.^_^

@Norman Blackburn Wind up merchant.


It also seems that when the boss says will be released he actually means

48 minutes ago, Lefteris Kalamaras said:

Let me amend the statement thus:

 

...which we hope will be released this year (but might not), barring any unforeseen circumstances, changes, hiccups, slips, life itself or any other caveat lawyers could put in written contracts, which my previous announcement wasn't. :)

Hope that covers you!

The real meaning is, we are working on it and when we have more to say, we will.

See I told you Ray..oh and well done FSL team...lovely example of customer care.

 

take care stay safe

all the best

Steve

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