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Worth it to invest more in this platform with MSFS A320 aiming for study-level?


Sam Barry

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Sam Barry

Hi there,

I am deciding whether or not to invest more in my P3D setup. 

It is looking likely that the freeware A320 being developed for MSFS will actually get to the same level as this one soon enough, with a huge development team working on the detailed systems. 

Has anyone else had any thoughts about this?

 

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Robin Locher

Hi, the freeware A320 will not reach the same level, as the FSLABS. Freeware planes are not that good. 
Look what huge amount of development is needed, you need documents from airbus and so on.
If you want to fly the MSFS for study level you need to wait about 2-3 years... and maybe until then there is a good Airbus

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Sam Barry
3 minutes ago, Robin Locher said:

Hi, the freeware A320 will not reach the same level, as the FSLABS. Freeware planes are not that good. 
Look what huge amount of development is needed, you need documents from airbus and so on.
If you want to fly the MSFS for study level you need to wait about 2-3 years... and maybe until then there is a good Airbus

They have the engineering docs from airbus though. What they have made in a couple of months is impressive, with accurate autopilot and FWC as two examples.

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Rafal Haczek
22 minutes ago, Liam Baron said:

What they have made in a couple of months is impressive

Maybe. But there is a definite limit of what you can do upgrading a default plane.

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Sam Barry
Just now, Rafal Haczek said:

Maybe. But there is a definite limit of what you can do upgrading a default plane.

They are ready to release it as standalone as soon as the platform allows it.

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Rafal Haczek
5 minutes ago, Liam Baron said:

They are ready to release it as standalone

I have no intention of arguing, but just look how many long years it took for this incredible team of experienced professionals to create FSLabs A32X series, which is still being improved, and you can judge based on whatever you reasoning tells you.

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Robin Locher
50 minutes ago, Liam Baron said:

They have the engineering docs from airbus though. What they have made in a couple of months is impressive, with accurate autopilot and FWC as two examples.

I flew it once, and its not immersive, its a disaster.

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Sam Barry
2 hours ago, Rafal Haczek said:

I have no intention of arguing, but just look how many long years it took for this incredible team of experienced professionals to create FSLabs A32X series, which is still being improved, and you can judge based on whatever you reasoning tells you.

And nor me. I am just going off the rate of progress currently being made.

1 hour ago, Robin Locher said:

I flew it once, and its not immersive, its a disaster.

Yes agreed, at the minute it is truly awful.

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Michael Petersen
On 1/3/2021 at 1:39 PM, Liam Baron said:

Hi there,

I am deciding whether or not to invest more in my P3D setup. 

It is looking likely that the freeware A320 being developed for MSFS will actually get to the same level as this one soon enough, with a huge development team working on the detailed systems. 

Has anyone else had any thoughts about this?

 

I wouldnt hesitate for a second going the FSL way comparing these in 2021.

Its absolute not to be compared from a studylevel perspective at least. The depth is unparralled to most addons current on market.

Its systems is many many hours away.

Michael Moe

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Stu Antonio

Show me the MSFS Airbus‘ accu pressure recharging as the yellow electrical pump activates with the opening of a cargo door.... Then we can talk.  :D:wub:

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Sam Barry
15 hours ago, Stu Antonio said:

Show me the MSFS Airbus‘ accu pressure recharging as the yellow electrical pump activates with the opening of a cargo door.... Then we can talk.  :D:wub:

Of course... Pretty sure that is already in the dev model. They are going way further than that with the systems. Cavitation in the pumps etc

19 hours ago, Michael Petersen said:

I wouldnt hesitate for a second going the FSL way comparing these in 2021.

Its absolute not to be compared from a studylevel perspective at least. The depth is unparralled to most addons current on market.

Its systems is many many hours away.

Michael Moe

Thanks, that is what I am going to do for the time being.

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Marc Ehnle

Any mod for default planes, be it the A320 or the DA62 will never be as good as a custom addon by a developer who has aimed for "study level" from the beginning. Flybywire have to deal with too many core problems for that. But they have already announced an A350 if I remember correctly to be created from scratch so this could indeed become extremely nice. But those freeware developers will always be a minority so our prime devs will certainly be required as well ^^ And when I see how some devs try to fool people at MSFS atm it's better if that can happen rather sooner than later to oped some people's eyes on what's actually possible if you really want to. 

Most of my FSEconomy flying happens in MSFS now and the VA in P3D :D

Invest in P3D? I don't currently. I have so many addons that I haven't used properly yet so there are prices for flight hours to be decreased first. My FSL and PMDG aircraft are down to a few cents per hour but there are some others that are not in the €-region lol

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Koen Meier

For my the only investment this year will be the sharklets as i like to own them to make the family complete. and then i will wait to see what happens with their projects such as concorde. as for other devs i will watch and see if it is a good value for money longterm as an investment. Plus by the time p3d V6 comes to the market we are a few years further and MSFS has developed in that time as well "hopefully". 

Ultimatly it is down to the end user to decide what he or she does with their money and what satisfies them. 

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Sante Sottile
On 1/3/2021 at 9:53 PM, Liam Baron said:

 with accurate autopilot and FWC as two examples.

Autopilot isn't even accurate nor even remotely completed. No denying they did a great job so far, but nowhere near the complexity of FSLabs.

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B_r_u_n_o-R_o_l_o

It took years for FSL to get to where they are at the moment (IMO the best A320 simulation for desktop simulation), I have tried the FS2020 A320 mod and it doesn't even come close to the A32X (again my opinion here, I sure appreciate the level of effort this group has delivered, specially when it is free, no meant as disrespect to the mod team). Personally I use FS2020 to buzz around, or to get familiar with an area I will be flying to for work (using GA aircraft). I am sticking to P3D and FSL for the time being....

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Sam Barry
1 hour ago, B_r_u_n_o-R_o_l_o said:

It took years for FSL to get to where they are at the moment (IMO the best A320 simulation for desktop simulation), I have tried the FS2020 A320 mod and it doesn't even come close to the A32X (again my opinion here, I sure appreciate the level of effort this group has delivered, specially when it is free, no meant as disrespect to the mod team). Personally I use FS2020 to buzz around, or to get familiar with an area I will be flying to for work (using GA aircraft). I am sticking to P3D and FSL for the time being....

I do get what you're saying, but its the rate of progress that leads me to believe they are going to have a better product for MSFS, sooner

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Hendrik Herryjanto
On 1/3/2021 at 8:39 PM, Liam Baron said:

Hi there,

I am deciding whether or not to invest more in my P3D setup. 

It is looking likely that the freeware A320 being developed for MSFS will actually get to the same level as this one soon enough, with a huge development team working on the detailed systems. 

Has anyone else had any thoughts about this?

 

Hi Liam,

It seems that you have decided to invest in MSFS before you asked the above question. I concluded that becuase of your response to people thoughts regarding your question. Almost all believe that the freeware A32X on MSFS is still has a long way to go before matching up with MSFS and you can still invest in P3D. However whatever the argument people gives, you are dead set that A32X on MSFS is going to be on a study level soon/sooner. 

I dont mean any hostility here. But I just wonder what is the point of asking a question while you already have the answer/decided in your mind? unless you just want to hear what you want to hear or wanting to find a justification(which is within your right to decide that way) of your decision.

 

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Dan Parkin

While I am obviously biased, comments made comparing other iterations of an Airbus to the FSL often show a misunderstanding or lack of awareness of the incredible levels of detail present in the FSL.

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Greg Marshall

I doubt the sounds of the MSFS A320 will ever compare to the FSLabs and that is one of the most important parts of the immersion for me. Just sliding that cockpit window back and hearing the sounds change is a game changer! 
 

The engine sounds also changing with altitude/speed/temperature is another big thing and in FSLabs absolutely no two flights are the same.

I know what I’ll be sticking with.

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Sam Barry
17 hours ago, Hendrik Herryjanto said:

Hi Liam,

It seems that you have decided to invest in MSFS before you asked the above question. I concluded that becuase of your response to people thoughts regarding your question. Almost all believe that the freeware A32X on MSFS is still has a long way to go before matching up with MSFS and you can still invest in P3D. However whatever the argument people gives, you are dead set that A32X on MSFS is going to be on a study level soon/sooner. 

I dont mean any hostility here. But I just wonder what is the point of asking a question while you already have the answer/decided in your mind? unless you just want to hear what you want to hear or wanting to find a justification(which is within your right to decide that way) of your decision.

 

I have taken it on board and going to keep with P3D. 

7 hours ago, Dan Parkin said:

While I am obviously biased, comments made comparing other iterations of an Airbus to the FSL often show a misunderstanding or lack of awareness of the incredible levels of detail present in the FSL.

Incredible levels of detail that others can do too. There's nothing the FSLabs have done that is literally impossible to emulate.

3 hours ago, Greg Marshall said:

I doubt the sounds of the MSFS A320 will ever compare to the FSLabs and that is one of the most important parts of the immersion for me. Just sliding that cockpit window back and hearing the sounds change is a game changer! 
 

The engine sounds also changing with altitude/speed/temperature is another big thing and in FSLabs absolutely no two flights are the same.

I know what I’ll be sticking with.

Sounds as you are describing are being implemented.

 

My honest, personal opinion is that there is a lot of blinkered love for this (great) product. I do use it for training and it's very valuable.

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Dan Parkin
16 hours ago, Liam Baron said:

Incredible levels of detail that others can do too. There's nothing the FSLabs have done that is literally impossible to emulate.

In MSFS? Are you sure ;)

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Charalampos Avgenikos
On 1/6/2021 at 6:08 PM, Greg Marshall said:

I doubt the sounds of the MSFS A320 will ever compare to the FSLabs and that is one of the most important parts of the immersion for me. Just sliding that cockpit window back and hearing the sounds change is a game changer! 
 

The engine sounds also changing with altitude/speed/temperature is another big thing and in FSLabs absolutely no two flights are the same.

I know what I’ll be sticking with.

Hey,

First of all, I would like you to reconsider the planes you are referring to and comparing. You have an A320 and an A320neo, and in these two airplanes the sounds are different inside the cockpit. The A320neo is built to suppress noise in the cabin and especially the cockpit. I would also like to mention that FlyByWire Simulations have the engine sounds change depending on the altitude / speed / temperature (the only thing they do not have yet is the window thing, since they have not yet modeled it to open). By the way, they have real A320/A320neo pilots that have confirmed their accuracy and how good the sounds are in the cockpit, cabin and external view.

Please, better educate yourself about the A320neo before making any public statements that may be false.

Thank you!

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phil highton

whatever floats your boat I would say, personally no comparison YET!

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Richard Nellyer
On 1/3/2021 at 12:48 PM, Robin Locher said:

Hi, the freeware A320 will not reach the same level, as the FSLABS. Freeware planes are not that good. 
Look what huge amount of development is needed, you need documents from airbus and so on.
If you want to fly the MSFS for study level you need to wait about 2-3 years... and maybe until then there is a good Airbus

 

On 1/3/2021 at 1:16 PM, Rafal Haczek said:

Maybe. But there is a definite limit of what you can do upgrading a default plane.

cough cough......ZIBO Mod 737-800X.

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Robin Locher
7 minutes ago, Sam Barry said:

Yes - why not?

It’s not ready for high quality Addons. Wait a few years and we will see. First the basics have to work.

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Nuno M Pinto
On 1/3/2021 at 12:39 PM, Sam Barry said:

It is looking likely that the freeware A320 being developed for MSFS will actually get to the same level as this one soon enough (...)

 

I can only laugh at this. It will NEVER even be close to this one. It's been months and months in development and systems-wise is still the same as it was before. Yeah so it "shows" more, but it still flies like a rock, and it is meant to, like the FSX predecessors were.

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Nuno M Pinto
23 hours ago, Richard Nellyer said:

 

cough cough......ZIBO Mod 737-800X.

It's not as good as it looks, it will never be as good as a correctly developed addon such as the one provided by PMDG. By freeware standards it is outstanding, but it is just not the same.

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Richard Nellyer
48 minutes ago, Nuno M Pinto said:

It's not as good as it looks, it will never be as good as a correctly developed addon such as the one provided by PMDG. By freeware standards it is outstanding, but it is just not the same.

Have you flown it? In my honest opinion it is better than the PMDG. It achieves everything that I do in a sim, the immersion is exceptional, the sounds are top notch and thanks to XP11's vastly superior flight model over P3D's it flies better. I do agree though that the full depth of systems for failures and really getting down to the bitter end of the FCOM is done better by PMDG in the case of the 738.

In Airbus land the FSL is the undisputed king!

In ideal world i'd like to see this.....

A sim with the ease and depth of 3rd party development tools that the P3D engine has, the Terrain and weather effects of MSFS and the flight model of XP11. That would be simming nirvana!

 

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Nuno M Pinto
11 minutes ago, Richard Nellyer said:

Have you flown it? In my honest opinion it is better than the PMDG. (...)

Of course i did, and i do. One cannot issue opinions if there's no experience. Maybe you should fly it more to see it fail in such simple things as climb performance, descent performance, RNAV accuracy, navigation issues of many sorts, etc. It's easy to be fooled by the looks of something, or the "apparent quality" of things. It might look good and it does, it just doesn't perform on the same level. Captain Sim comes to mind.

It's just not to the level of PMDG and it will never be, mostly like this "A320 NEO" thing from Asobo - It's not meant to.

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Chris Frasure
On 1/4/2021 at 4:10 PM, Stu Antonio said:

Show me the MSFS Airbus‘ accu pressure recharging as the yellow electrical pump activates with the opening of a cargo door.... Then we can talk.  :D:wub:

HEY!  That’s my line! Haha

Chris

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Richard Nellyer
2 minutes ago, Nuno M Pinto said:

Of course i did, and i do. One cannot issue opinions if there's no experience. Maybe you should fly it more to see it fail in such simple things as climb performance, descent performance, RNAV accuracy, navigation issues of many sorts, etc. It's easy to be fooled by the looks of something, or the "apparent quality" of things. It might look good and it does, it just doesn't perform on the same level. Captain Sim comes to mind.

It's just not to the level of PMDG and it will never be, mostly like this "A320 NEO" thing from Asobo - It's not meant to.

I'm not going to get drawn into an argument on this. It's my opinion. I have over 500hrs in the Zibo and have encountered non of the above.

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Aaron Sprouse

Just putting in my 2¢, I don't see why everyone here is so against the FBW mod. Sure, it is most definitely not FSL level, but for the short few months they've had, they've done some tremendous work. These guys have over 100 contributors on their github, and from what I can see, several IRL bus pilots in their Discord chat. I would not be shocked if these guys could get something close to FSL level given the time to do it. Also, I think its a bit unfair to compare them to past freeware projects like the Zibo mod. Those were made by like 1 or 2 people, and their source code is not public, these guys have everything they do out in the open, where anyone can work on it. And considering these guys are also in contact with asobo, I think they will be able to go very far with their mod. I'm a little skeptical, but I'm not going to write it off just because its not FSL Level.

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Sam Barry
5 hours ago, Aaron Sprouse said:

Just putting in my 2¢, I don't see why everyone here is so against the FBW mod. Sure, it is most definitely not FSL level, but for the short few months they've had, they've done some tremendous work. These guys have over 100 contributors on their github, and from what I can see, several IRL bus pilots in their Discord chat. I would not be shocked if these guys could get something close to FSL level given the time to do it. Also, I think its a bit unfair to compare them to past freeware projects like the Zibo mod. Those were made by like 1 or 2 people, and their source code is not public, these guys have everything they do out in the open, where anyone can work on it. And considering these guys are also in contact with asobo, I think they will be able to go very far with their mod. I'm a little skeptical, but I'm not going to write it off just because its not FSL Level.

Agreed, it just isn't the same as other freeware products. They are determined to get to the bitter end of every single system simulation - with a huge team to do it as you say. I think it's going to be better than FSLabs.

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Sam Barry
20 hours ago, Nuno M Pinto said:

I can only laugh at this. It will NEVER even be close to this one. It's been months and months in development and systems-wise is still the same as it was before. Yeah so it "shows" more, but it still flies like a rock, and it is meant to, like the FSX predecessors were.

What is to laugh at? What you're saying is just wrong - it has got better. It's just waiting to be released from the shackles of the sim developers.

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Rafal Haczek
7 hours ago, Aaron Sprouse said:

I don't see why everyone here is so against the FBW mod.

I don't think anyone here is 'against the FBW mod'. By the way what would be there to be against?
I guess the discussion developed due to assumptions like this:

On 1/3/2021 at 1:39 PM, Sam Barry said:

It is looking likely that the freeware A320 being developed for MSFS will actually get to the same level as this one soon enough

 

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Robert Sutherland
2 hours ago, Sam Barry said:

I think it's going to be better than FSLabs.

It's a bit of an unquantifiable assertion though. 

FSLabs have taken years to get to this point. They first announced the A320 line in June 2010. That's a case of honing their skills and a LOT of trial and error to get to the point they're at now. 

Can the FBW Mod get to that point? Sure. Will it help that they have so many people working on it? Questionable. Just having a big team doesn't mean they can all get the work done more quickly. It's about project management, too.

I just wouldn't put all your eggs in that basket. 

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Hendrik Herryjanto
7 hours ago, Sam Barry said:

Agreed, it just isn't the same as other freeware products. They are determined to get to the bitter end of every single system simulation - with a huge team to do it as you say. I think it's going to be better than FSLabs.

As I posted before, I am wondering what is the purpose of this thread. Were you really curious and ask a question whether it is worth to invest more in P3D with MSFS A320Mod or have you made decision before you made this thread and want to hear only what you want to hear to support your decision? 

I am not saying you have to agree with people who says that A320 mod still have a long way, you can disagree with them. But again, what is your purpose of opening this thread? Becuase what I can conclude is that it doesnt matter what people opinions, you have decided to say that A320 mod will be better than FSL and it is not worth investing in P3D. If that is the case, that is fine but why then open the thread and ask the question? 

This thread has turn ugly and arguing which is best, FSL or A320 Mod. At the current state FSL is more advanced and  who can say what the future will bring - both for A320 Mod and FSL (since FSL will always make improvement as well). We all are A320 fans (not FSL per se but as a plane) so why can we just enjoy that rather than arguing what may or may not happen? The world has turned upside down for some of us and we dont need this negative atmosphere in our hobby. At least that is what I feel with the atmosphere in this thread, my apology to all if I am wrong/ overly sensitive. 

I am not saying that we cannot have different opinions and voice what we think. The reality is we all have voiced out our opinions and arguments and clearly there is a disgareement, Can we not just agree to disagree and move on? There is no need to repeat again and again what makes FSL better or what make A320mod potentially be better.

Sorry guys, just trying to find a common ground for all of us here. 

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Sam Barry
12 minutes ago, Hendrik Herryjanto said:

As I posted before, I am wondering what is the purpose of this thread. Were you really curious and ask a question whether it is worth to invest more in P3D with MSFS A320Mod or have you made decision before you made this thread and want to hear only what you want to hear to support your decision? 

I am not saying you have to agree with people who says that A320 mod still have a long way, you can disagree with them. But again, what is your purpose of opening this thread? Becuase what I can conclude is that it doesnt matter what people opinions, you have decided to say that A320 mod will be better than FSL and it is not worth investing in P3D. If that is the case, that is fine but why then open the thread and ask the question? 

This thread has turn ugly and arguing which is best, FSL or A320 Mod. At the current state FSL is more advanced and  who can say what the future will bring - both for A320 Mod and FSL (since FSL will always make improvement as well). We all are A320 fans (not FSL per se but as a plane) so why can we just enjoy that rather than arguing what may or may not happen? The world has turned upside down for some of us and we dont need this negative atmosphere in our hobby. At least that is what I feel with the atmosphere in this thread, my apology to all if I am wrong/ overly sensitive. 

I am not saying that we cannot have different opinions and voice what we think. The reality is we all have voiced out our opinions and arguments and clearly there is a disgareement, Can we not just agree to disagree and move on? There is no need to repeat again and again what makes FSL better or what make A320mod potentially be better.

Sorry guys, just trying to find a common ground for all of us here. 

Yes, I wasn't going to add further. Agree to disagree.

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Dan Parkin
On 1/14/2021 at 8:34 AM, Sam Barry said:

I think it's going to be better than FSLabs.

As others have said, this thread keeps on going because of statements like this :lol:

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Sam Barry
1 hour ago, Dan Parkin said:

As others have said, this thread keeps on going because of statements like this :lol:

It’s an opinion, why laugh?

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Maurício Brentano

You asked others opinions about two (utterly) different Airbus simulators. You got your answers. You argued, because apparently you already had your answer before. Move on.

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