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FSlabs in MSFS2020


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Phil Tereny

Oh boy, that Microsoft A320neo is a nightmare...No selectable TCAS, no functioning PACK switches, no AUTO TRIM and so on. Please help us out FSLabs!

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https://www.flightsimulator.com/microsoft-flight-simulator-set-for-launch-on-august-18-for-pc-also-with-xbox-game-pass-for-pc-beta/ Should we start another hype?

The A320 Neo is good enough for now. You can do full flights with it, and its super easy to set up a flight plan in the menu lol.  Honestly gonna have a lot of fun with it until FSLabs helps us out wi

It's a VFR revolution for sure, I  made one flight with the diamond plane, the feel of the plane is different,  although I never flew an actual plane it felt right if you know what I mean specially wi

Koen Meier
5 minutes ago, Phil Tereny said:

Oh boy, that Microsoft A320neo is a nightmare...No selectable TCAS, no functioning PACK switches, no AUTO TRIM and so on. Please help us out FSLabs!

what did you expect

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Carl_Beeby
1 hour ago, Phil Tereny said:

Oh boy, that Microsoft A320neo is a nightmare...No selectable TCAS, no functioning PACK switches, no AUTO TRIM and so on. Please help us out FSLabs!

Oh no! I wish I had read this sooner as I've set fire to all my old sim stuff now :)

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Nuno M Pinto
2 hours ago, Phil Tereny said:

Oh boy, that Microsoft A320neo is a nightmare...No selectable TCAS, no functioning PACK switches, no AUTO TRIM and so on. Please help us out FSLabs!

It's a default aircraft, that's how it goes. Comparatively to FSX though, it is much worse in terms of usability, i can't get it to fly correctly whereas FSX's version, although it flew like a Boeing, at least flew.

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Filip Nowak
2 hours ago, Phil Tereny said:

Oh boy, that Microsoft A320neo is a nightmare...No selectable TCAS, no functioning PACK switches, no AUTO TRIM and so on. Please help us out FSLabs!

LOL, I think expectations because of Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 were uber-high. That's why I think P3Dv5 / X-Plane 11 + VATSIM will stay until PMDG/FSLab will bring their planes to the game.

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Carl_Beeby
5 minutes ago, Filip Nowak said:

LOL, I think expectations because of Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 were uber-high. That's why I think P3Dv5 / X-Plane 11 + VATSIM will stay until PMDG/FSLab will bring their planes to the game.

Agree and I use the combos you mention (not vatsim). I'll look at buying a sim when I know it has plane that I enjoy flying, likely a tubeliner :) And of course if there are additional benefits to me.

 

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Christoph Sebek

Rather small gaming community compared to others but with the biggest fuss attitude ever seen. Quite sure there are many sad faces around the globe, who would have thought that they would have functional third-party addons on release day. MFS is definitely a game changer, no doubt, but it will simply take a while for the well-suited developers to adopt to the new sim.

As for me, I might as well just pick up the Game Pass one day or another, just to try.

But I will continue to enjoy flying the Busses, and others, in V5 for the time being.

Time is limited anyways due to real world commitments, so I rather spend time with my hobby than waiting impatiently.

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Filip Nowak
13 minutes ago, Christoph Sebek said:

But I will continue to enjoy flying the Busses, and others, in V5 for the time being.

+1

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Riccardo Masia
9 hours ago, Phil Tereny said:

Oh boy, that Microsoft A320neo is a nightmare...No selectable TCAS, no functioning PACK switches, no AUTO TRIM and so on. Please help us out FSLabs!

Thought you were exaggerating for a bit.  <removed>  that plane is a joke indeed. Rolling to the left, full right sidestick deflection... no response from the plane at all.

Done with that plane for the time being!

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Filip Nowak
53 minutes ago, Riccardo Masia said:

Thought you were exaggerating for a bit.  <removed>  that plane is a joke indeed. Rolling to the left, full right sidestick deflection... no response from the plane at all.

Done with that plane for the time being!

Me too, one flight and done ... I'll have fun with GA ...

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Marco Scharfschwerdt

My opinion is that it is currently a VFR simulator. I had the luck to test the alpha and so I knew, that the airliners arent that good. I will definitly stick with V5 until good airliners are released. But it is a really good base and maybe in a year or so we will have an excellent sim for everything

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Richard Le Page

I only fly airliners so until there are decent payware airliners for the sim I won't be buying it. The scenery looks far superior to any other sim but payware airports in  P3d are far superior than the default airports in MSFS. No point having great ground textures if you haven't got a decent aircraft to fly. Maybe the GA planes are good but im only into airline flying.

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Filip Nowak
1 hour ago, Richard Le Page said:

I only fly airliners so until there are decent payware airliners for the sim I won't be buying it. The scenery looks far superior to any other sim but payware airports in  P3d are far superior than the default airports in MSFS. No point having great ground textures if you haven't got a decent aircraft to fly. Maybe the GA planes are good but im only into airline flying.

Once I installed MSFS I've discovered it's fun flying VFR, despite P3Dv5 and X-Plane 11 fully invested which even with tons of money injected were not convincing me for some VFRs never ever.

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Jerad Burns

The A320 Neo is good enough for now. You can do full flights with it, and its super easy to set up a flight plan in the menu lol.  Honestly gonna have a lot of fun with it until FSLabs helps us out with an airbus. 

The sounds and graphics on the Asobo A320 Neo are top tier, really satisfying. PLUS the realism in the rest of the sim... Its quite an experience. We are going to be SET once we get a realistic A320 guys.

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Mikey Miller

Well I was very surprised this new Simulator is rather amazing, industry seems to be very healthy now and a great platform in MFS will take us to new heights. :D 

Viva Asobo

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Alaa Riad

It's a VFR revolution for sure, I  made one flight with the diamond plane, the feel of the plane is different,  although I never flew an actual plane it felt right if you know what I mean specially with no autopilot, the flight started from my hometown HECA  to the city I was born at HEAX.......The flight took more than an hour, while I was not impressed much by the city sceneries with obvious missing important buildings and other new ones that doesn't exist, the countryside was remarkable because it's based on actual satellite  images, the plane is a default plane with default capabilities, great graphics for sure, the weather was clear but with continuously different visibility depends on location, the performance was good, little long  time with initial flight download but during flight did not experience stattrres or low frame rate.

Now to the nightmare....... The controls and views, I know it's a learning curve but my rudder panel couldn't be recognized by the SIM at all, while my HOTAS's assignment!  not a single axis or function was ready  or maped like previous SIMs, the keyboard functions you need to study or reassign, I wish they developed a mode where my settings are as close as possible for FSX but I couldn't find any until last night.

No regrets but lots of anticipations :)

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Holger Teutsch

For my take FSLabs is in no hurry. After some flights in the DA with some clouds (btw the sim is obviously *not* showing the real weather here in EDDF) I think I have to wait for the upcoming Nvidia RTX 3090 Ti and look whether I can afford it.

Until then I will happily enjoy my p3d V5 with smooth 30+ fps.

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Filip Nowak

Today I made a first IFR flight using Cessna Citation ... That was my first and LAST IFR flight in MFS2020...

-autopilot does not work

-FMC can't properly steer a plane

-messing in STAR/SID will wipe out FMC and force you to steer by heading

-any passing point wasn't able to be tagged by FMC as passed, so had to make DIRECT to next waypoint after passing each one.

-suddenly it set FL11000 and no possibility to change

-FMC allowed FL440 where FL430 is max for this plane

I have enough for some time, maybe VFRs. Anyway yeah awaiting for RTX3090 too... suggested price around 1500$ so in Europe probably add 500$ to it.

Let's see how fast developers will bring good liner (IFR) planes to this game. If you play VATSIM using PMDG or FSLab ... you will have to wait some time. Comparing FSLab A320 which is perfect and team built it years to A320 Neo default in MFS2020 is so far a big joke, I think A320Neo has more or less 10-20% of FSLab functionalities.

 

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David Norfolk

If or when this plane hits the new sim. It'll be a amazing day for all of us. 

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Steve Prowse

Are we not allowed to even mention the arrival of a new flight simulator here?  I mean even FSL seemed to very much welcome the news: what’s changed?  

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Steve Prowse
18 hours ago, David Norfolk said:

If or when this plane hits the new sim. It'll be a amazing day for all of us. 

Indeed it was David, truly above all my expectations.  This is surely the future of flight.

 

best regards

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Steve Prowse
23 minutes ago, Robert Sutherland said:

Well there's an entire discussion about it here: 

 

Yeah thanks for that, it seems though I’ve lost a post??

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Jonathan Li

Can someone who is way more knowledgeable than me provide a quick list of major functionality missing and avionics systems modeling gaps in the MSFS 2020 A320neo compared to the FSLabs A320?

I see Phil's post up there and get the sense that the list is quite long!

 

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Jerad Burns

I unlocked a Steam achievement for powering up the A320neo Cold and Dark and starting the engines. lol I kinda like that. You gotta have all auto assists off to unlock most of the achievements on steam btw.

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Peter Hastings
2 hours ago, Jonathan Li said:

Can someone who is way more knowledgeable than me provide a quick list of major functionality missing and avionics systems modeling gaps in the MSFS 2020 A320neo compared to the FSLabs A320?

I see Phil's post up there and get the sense that the list is quite long!

 

Has anyone watched/seen this?  Real world pilot doing a circuit at EDI - posted a couple of days ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jchxsSdBRLo

 

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Stefan Vollstedt
10 hours ago, Jonathan Li said:

Can someone who is way more knowledgeable than me provide a quick list of major functionality missing and avionics systems modeling gaps in the MSFS 2020 A320neo compared to the FSLabs A320?

I see Phil's post up there and get the sense that the list is quite long!

 

There are very many things missing. It is a default plane so do not wonder. But for a default plane it is ok and much more realistic than the Airbus in FSX times.

Some things:

- Cannot arm spoilers

- Lower ECAM screen is not automatically switched depending on the current plane situation (e.g. activating engine page on takeoff, wheelpage before landing)

- No FlyByWire

- TCAS simplified (if you turn the TCAS selector to ON TA/RA is automatically set)

-....

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Amir Parsian

Reading all the comments, I decided to ditch my XP and keep the P3D :D I think I wouldn't be disappointment with C172, would I? 

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Koen Meier
59 minutes ago, Amir Parsian said:

Reading all the comments, I decided to ditch my XP and keep the P3D :D I think I wouldn't be disappointment with C172, would I? 

Ga aircraft are fine.

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Tomáš Pokorný
12 hours ago, Jonathan Li said:

Can someone who is way more knowledgeable than me provide a quick list of major functionality missing and avionics systems modeling gaps in the MSFS 2020 A320neo compared to the FSLabs A320?

I see Phil's post up there and get the sense that the list is quite long!

 

It's not really comparable. If you're used to the FsLabs, this one will definitely not satisfy your needs...

That being said, there has never been a better default airliner jet in flight sim history :)

And as far as GA goes, that's awesome. Yeah I mean, the Cessna 172 isn't like the A2A one but it's quite good.

We just need to remember what FSX / P3D / X-Plane default aircraft are like :-)

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Andreas Guther
3 hours ago, Stefan Vollstedt said:

There are very many things missing. It is a default plane so do not wonder. But for a default plane it is ok and much more realistic than the Airbus in FSX times.

Some things:

- Cannot arm spoilers

- Lower ECAM screen is not automatically switched depending on the current plane situation (e.g. activating engine page on takeoff, wheelpage before landing)

- No FlyByWire

- TCAS simplified (if you turn the TCAS selector to ON TA/RA is automatically set)

-....

Well, no "FBW" is not really correct. It has definitively a FBW, but not a good one.

I did some investigation on it (also using the SimVars example application from the SDK), and here are my conclusions:

  • one needs to definitively create a specific profile for the A320 to ensure sensitivity is set to 0% giving you a linear curve, that improves it a lot!
  • normal law for pitch has the following issues:
    • only based on load factor, pitch rate is not used in the control loop resulting in slow reaction on low speeds (I think that's why Airbus has included it)
    • load factor is not corrected in curves (e.g. with 5° pitch and 30° bank it should follow cos(5°)/cos(30°) = 1.15 g but it still tries to follow 1.0 g flight -> aircraft needs constant stick input to keep level flight)
  • flare mode is not or not correctly implemented, but it's even more strange: you actually "see" ground effect and sometimes you need to push the aircraft on ground with stick forward
  • normal law for roll get's very laggy and strange when almost on ground, makes it sometimes VERY hard to control the airplane on landing

So my view on the A320 Neo in MSFS2020 is that the missing systems are not THAT problematic, because I think one cannot expect this for a default airplane. More severe is for me that even normal flying is really awful with this plane, especially for take-off and landing. That destroys a lot of fun. I don't expect that alternate law or the even more advanced flight envelope protections work (roll protection is easy and high speed protection is doable but the alpha protection is hard to get right). Issues in Flight Management are annoying but honestly this was always the case with those built-in airliners. So that's why we need FSLabs on MSFS2020 :-)

I know a lot of people are complaining about the new flight simulator and I would have hoped that more issues got sorted out before release. Being an alpha tester I'm still glad they released it, because that was the real start of the journey and we got rid of the annoying watermarks. I think it's a great step forward and I honestly see a lot of potential in this platform. So I decided to stay positive because they already shown a big step forward and on top of it I like their interaction with the community. If you do things differently it's a great chance to reach things you never reached before and this often goes in line with things being broken up...sometimes for the good and sometimes for the bad. Things that are really needed will come back, I'm sure.

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David Reage

I've always been a tubeliner pilot and a hardcore Airbus fan (even went as far as to buy a few pieces of Skalarki hardware).  However, I'm having so much fun flying GA/VFR in MSFS that I can't see myself heading back to P3Dv5 to fly airliners anytime soon.  I'm as surprised as anyone.  The fact that it's summer here and I'm also spending a lot of time outside limits my overall sim time, so it's quite possible once fall comes around I'll have enough sim time to do both.  For now I'm happy to spend my sim time sightseeing and flying by hand.  Once we have the FSLabs airbus in MSFS it will be a fully complete world though.

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Jerad Burns
4 hours ago, David Reage said:

I've always been a tubeliner pilot and a hardcore Airbus fan (even went as far as to buy a few pieces of Skalarki hardware).  However, I'm having so much fun flying GA/VFR in MSFS that I can't see myself heading back to P3Dv5 to fly airliners anytime soon.  I'm as surprised as anyone.  The fact that it's summer here and I'm also spending a lot of time outside limits my overall sim time, so it's quite possible once fall comes around I'll have enough sim time to do both.  For now I'm happy to spend my sim time sightseeing and flying by hand.  Once we have the FSLabs airbus in MSFS it will be a fully complete world though.

I've been sight seeing with the default airbus. People don't realize that real life 3D ground textures ALSO MAKES IFR waaaaaay superior. I keep reading "Yeah MSFS is only good for VFR", but dudes, airbuses also use VFR lmao. Everything about the new sim makes flying an airbus WAYYY more exciting. Now hopefully FSLabs can get at least a temporary airbus ported over for us, they don't even need to completely go crazy with it. I think a simplified version would be awesome for now.

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John Barnes

Just a little input based on receipt of numerous questions by email and PM.

Are FSL planning to develop for MSFS?     I know nothing.

If they do, will it be a free upgrade?             I know nothing.

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Robert Sutherland
5 hours ago, Jerad Burns said:

I've been sight seeing with the default airbus. People don't realize that real life 3D ground textures ALSO MAKES IFR waaaaaay superior. I keep reading "Yeah MSFS is only good for VFR", but dudes, airbuses also use VFR lmao. Everything about the new sim makes flying an airbus WAYYY more exciting. Now hopefully FSLabs can get at least a temporary airbus ported over for us, they don't even need to completely go crazy with it. I think a simplified version would be awesome for now.

But a simplified Airbus by FSLabs is basically not an FSLabs plane, is it? Everything FSLabs have done has been in minute detail. 

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Norman Blackburn

When it comes to complex add on planes (no matter the developer) people need to lose the notion completely of any port over - simplified or otherwise.  

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Koen Meier
Just now, Norman Blackburn said:

When it comes to complex add on planes (no matter the developer) people need to lose the notion completely of any port over - simplified or otherwise.  

It is very much a scratch build all over again.

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Robert Sutherland
12 minutes ago, Norman Blackburn said:

When it comes to complex add on planes (no matter the developer) people need to lose the notion completely of any port over - simplified or otherwise.  

And it’s also worth bearing in mind that MSFS’s SDK is still not fully functioning — meaning that plane developers like FSLabs still don’t know exactly what they’re dealing with.

What is known is that it’ll take developers a lot of work to make products for MSFS, and that a lot of the code that works in P3D isn’t compatible with the new platform. 

The unknown is why FSLabs probably haven’t released a statement about the new sim, because you can’t commit to doing something when you don’t know the consequences of such a commitment. 

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David Murden
27 minutes ago, Robert Sutherland said:

And it’s also worth bearing in mind that MSFS’s SDK is still not fully functioning — meaning that plane developers like FSLabs still don’t know exactly what they’re dealing with.

What is known is that it’ll take developers a lot of work to make products for MSFS, and that a lot of the code that works in P3D isn’t compatible with the new platform. 

The unknown is why FSLabs probably haven’t released a statement about the new sim, because you can’t commit to doing something when you don’t know the consequences of such a commitment. 

That's a very good point Robert.

I hope since PMDG hope to have the NG3 out by the end of year/Q2 ( PMDG timeS^^) But if they can do it am sure FSL can. It's disappointing that we have not heard anything and PMDG have shown shots of the NG3 within MSFS.

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Tomáš Pokorný
7 minutes ago, David Murden said:

That's a very good point Robert.

I hope since PMDG hope to have the NG3 out by the end of year/Q2 ( PMDG timeS^^) But if they can do it am sure FSL can. It's disappointing that we have not heard anything and PMDG have shown shots of the NG3 within MSFS.

Exactly this... Direct competitor PMDG has to work with the same resources and they have clearly informed their paying customer about what they may expect. Even posted screenshots.

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Koen Meier

The latest dev update from me/asobo talks about converting c++ to web assemblies “Additionally, MFS’s SDK is being updated to bring optimized experiences to third-party developers. “WebAssembly is [also] undergoing active development [...]  to help port existing C++ aircraft”.” https://www.thresholdx.net/news/msfsa2

Based on the job description posted by LK c#/++ are heavily used in the fslabs products and also Gdi+ . It will take time to adjust to the new sdk.

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Norman Blackburn

Gents,

Before this becomes into a big bash allow me to cut this off.

As things stand Microsoft in their roadmap have one update this week and another 3 or is it 4 SDK updates planned in September.

In much the same way as others, we could have made up similar screenshots but without the core working, they would have served no purpose except to get people's hopes up when its really way too early.

When we can provide more news you can be sure we shall.  For now however we can't.

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christian marraffa-voidey

I would like to know like many others. If Flightsimlabs will make an update to make the A320 compatible on Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020? and when ?

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Nuno M Pinto
3 hours ago, christian marraffa-voidey said:

I would like to know like many others. If Flightsimlabs will make an update to make the A320 compatible on Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020? and when ?

I sincerely doubt we will see anything before 2022. And that's "if".

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