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ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd

GSX interaction: Is it possible to have GPU autoconnect after parking ?

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ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd

Hello,

I read the ATSU flowchart and it works super well for boarding and taxi out !! Such a brillant and so immersive interaction between the bus and GSX. Thanks for that !

But my question was, when you're parking at the gate after your flight. I approach the gate, apply the parking brake, then I go to the MCDU options and turn on the GPU before turning off the engine. After turning off the engine, GSX allows me to connect the gate and it says something along the lines of "you're now drawing EXT power from the gate". And then deboarding automatically starts when I switch off the beacon, seat belts... (I think this is what triggers it?)

Is this the normal way to proceed, or is there a flow allwing EXT power to be automatically connected to the aircraft ?

 

Thank you !

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Koen Meier
1 minute ago, ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd said:

Hello,

I read the ATSU flowchart and it works super well for boarding and taxi out !! Such a brillant and so immersive interaction between the bus and GSX. Thanks for that !

But my question was, when you're parking at the gate after your flight. I approach the gate, apply the parking brake, then I go to the MCDU options and turn on the GPU before turning off the engine. After turning off the engine, GSX allows me to connect the gate and it says something along the lines of "you're now drawing EXT power from the gate". And then deboarding automatically starts when I switch off the beacon, seat belts... (I think this is what triggers it?)

Is this the normal way to proceed, or is there a flow allwing EXT power to be automatically connected to the aircraft ?

 

Thank you !

I have found that the gpu is auto connected upon arrival after engine shutdown and you have the apu running. It takes a few moments to connect but then you should see the avail light.

when you see that line it means the jetway has a ground power unit attached to it.

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ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd

Thank you for your answer.

But isn't it getting more and more rare, operationally, to turn on APU after landing ?

I don't know about current airline policy, but from Airbus's side, single engine taxi without APU have been certified years ago !

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Koen Meier
Just now, ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd said:

Thank you for your answer.

But isn't it getting more and more rare, operationally, to turn on APU after landing ?

I don't know about current airline policy, but from Airbus's side, single engine taxi without APU have been certified years ago !

it might be certified but that doesn't mean every a320 is able to do that, especially if airlines still fly EIS1 aircraft.

i think it is still common to have apu on after landing as you might not always have an GPU under the jetway or a fixed one on the ground. or you might not even get an GPU because the airport only has a couple but not enough during peak times. they could even go bust and it could take 10 minutes to find a replacement unit that moves.

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Markus Burkhard
51 minutes ago, ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd said:

But isn't it getting more and more rare, operationally, to turn on APU after landing ?

I don't know about current airline policy, but from Airbus's side, single engine taxi without APU have been certified years ago !

No, it is standard procedure to have the APU running after landing. You keep it running until you have ground power available. Then you are good to shut down the APU. This is perfectly fine. What airports don't want is for you to keep the APU running after being parked.

Single-engine taxi without APU is not a standard procedure, mostly due to system redundancy reasons. 

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Michael Petersen

Another issue i can come up with is the GSX jetway power when chaseplane on some  camera movement the jetway disapear.

Therefor GPU is best

Michael Moe

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Marc Ehnle
13 minutes ago, Michael Petersen said:

Another issue i can come up with is the GSX jetway power when chaseplane on some  camera movement the jetway disapear.

Therefor GPU is best

Michael Moe

What do you mean, the jetway disappears due to camera movements?? This doesn‘t sound correct

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Koen Meier
6 minutes ago, Marc Ehnle said:

What do you mean, the jetway disappears due to camera movements?? This doesn‘t sound correct

That is a clip mode issue which every one is subject too.

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Marc Ehnle

Oh okay.. I haven‘t noticed that this will disconnect the GPU

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Koen Meier
1 minute ago, Marc Ehnle said:

Oh okay.. I haven‘t noticed that this will disconnect the GPU

I also haven’t noticed that it disconnects the gpu. Previously there was an issue with gsx gpu and fslabs but that revolves around a power loss when moving the jetway initially but that was resolved a long time ago.

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ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd
22 hours ago, Markus Burkhard said:

No, it is standard procedure to have the APU running after landing. You keep it running until you have ground power available. Then you are good to shut down the APU. This is perfectly fine. What airports don't want is for you to keep the APU running after being parked.

Single-engine taxi without APU is not a standard procedure, mostly due to system redundancy reasons. 

Thank you for your feedback. All works fine with APU on ground, I have EXT power connecting as it should. I'll do that from now on.

Regarding single engine taxi, you may want to take a look at this -> https://services.airbus.com/en/flight-operations/system-upgrades/fuel-efficiency/single-engine-taxi-without-apu.html

I think it is highly possible that we see more of it in the future, as taxi is a very important way of saving fuel !

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Koen Meier
3 minutes ago, ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd said:

Thank you for your feedback. All works fine with APU on ground, I have EXT power connecting as it should. I'll do that from now on.

Regarding single engine taxi, you may want to take a look at this -> https://services.airbus.com/en/flight-operations/system-upgrades/fuel-efficiency/single-engine-taxi-without-apu.html

I think it is highly possible that we see more of it in the future, as taxi is a very important way of saving fuel !

the article doestn mention taxi in or taxi out.

 

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ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd
3 minutes ago, Koen Meier said:

the article doestn mention taxi in or taxi out.

 

It's both.

Actually the article do mention it, look closer :ph34r:in the "benefits" section.

 

 

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Koen Meier
2 minutes ago, ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd said:

It's both.

Actually the article do mention it, look closer :ph34r:in the "benefits" section.

but airlines consider more then just the cost benefits that airbus say. passenger comfort, taxi times at all the airports, airport handler contracts. if you weigh all these things the benefits are reduced to a certain extent.

to me it will only shine when you have a long taxi ie 20 minutes or so. or you are taxing and have a long ground delay. and maybe when you have an apu inop.

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ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd

Absolutely, this all makes sence ! My question was really towards airline practice :D 

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Antti Salo

From my years of working in ground handling, I do remember quite a few airlines who wouldn’t start the APU on arrival unless required e.g. due to outside temperature. But as stated, it is both Airbus SOP and more common to see it switched on.

I think it would be better if the ground power AVAIL was triggered by the end of docking in GSX (+ x sec) instead of the current both engines shutdown (+ x sec), as quite often the GPU will be hooked by the ground crew even if the engines are still running. Not always of course... For example sometimes the GPU is part of the jetbridge, and may only be connected when the jetway is docked, which in return can be done only when the beacons are off.

And I don’t know how much changing the trigger would complicate things on the developer’s side.

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Koen Meier
2 minutes ago, Antti Salo said:

From my years of working in ground handling, I do remember quite a few airlines who wouldn’t start the APU on arrival unless required e.g. due to outside temperature. But as stated, it is both Airbus SOP and more common to see it switched on.

I think it would be better if the ground power AVAIL was triggered by the end of docking in GSX (+ x sec) instead of the current both engines shutdown (+ x sec), as quite often the GPU will be hooked by the ground crew even if the engines are still running. Not always of course... For example sometimes the GPU is part of the jetbridge, and may only be connected when the jetway is docked, which in return can be done only when the beacons are off.

And I don’t know how much changing the trigger would complicate things on the developer’s side.

Fslabs doesn’t have an external gpu. I personally think the setup now suits most cases. I start my fslabs as turn around state aka on gpu. That won’t work if the jetway first needs to come let alone if there is no gpu under the jetway. That would cause a power outage in the system which then the batteries take over but those can’t supply full power to all systems.

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Antti Salo
12 minutes ago, Koen Meier said:

Fslabs doesn’t have an external gpu. I personally think the setup now suits most cases. I start my fslabs as turn around state aka on gpu. That won’t work if the jetway first needs to come let alone if there is no gpu under the jetway. That would cause a power outage in the system which then the batteries take over but those can’t supply full power to all systems.

Yeah, I wasn’t suggesting it should actually be changed to take into account jetbridge position. That would make things far too complicated for the sim imo. I’m only talking about the condition of when the GPU is connected on arrival. If it came available let’s say 5-15 seconds after you have successfully docked, it would be possible to taxi in without APU.

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Paul Stassen

And how many times does it happen irl that the GPU (connection) does not work? Often enough also a good reason IMO to better have the APU running when  arriving at the gate. Instead of having to keep one engine running and passengers, that are in a hurry to get out (they don't always care that the seat belts sign is still on), until the GPU connection is established.

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ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd
18 hours ago, Antti Salo said:

From my years of working in ground handling, I do remember quite a few airlines who wouldn’t start the APU on arrival unless required e.g. due to outside temperature. But as stated, it is both Airbus SOP and more common to see it switched on.

I think it would be better if the ground power AVAIL was triggered by the end of docking in GSX (+ x sec) instead of the current both engines shutdown (+ x sec), as quite often the GPU will be hooked by the ground crew even if the engines are still running. Not always of course... For example sometimes the GPU is part of the jetbridge, and may only be connected when the jetway is docked, which in return can be done only when the beacons are off.

And I don’t know how much changing the trigger would complicate things on the developer’s side.

Thank you ! I agree with your suggestion, I think it would be very comfortable. Having the GPU connect +x secs after parking brake application ?

Every little bit of fuel saved makes a big difference in the end for airlines. 

 

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Riccardo_Parachini

I think this comes to airlines and their requirements.
For what is worth a big Eu lowcost prioritize the stairs and doors opening to GPU. This means that as the target is to open doors within actual on blocks + 2 minutes, normally you will see GPU plugged in after opening doors.
I have to say that GPU sometimes are often plugged without being electrically connected due to design issue, so pilots should warn ground crew to replug it. This would cause some delays, thus better starting the APU and then when GPU is available turn apu off.
However the practice of arriving with APU off and plug GPU before turning off engines seems normal practice with some scandinavian airlines.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Owe Viktorsson

Hi All,

SAS has the policy not to start APU after landing, connect to Ground Power and then cut the engines at the stand/gate. Of course at some stations you still need the APU.

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ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd

It is also mentionned in some nordic airports briefings, such as EFHK (Helsinki-Vantaa)

image.png.e457362acae90b517095752351ca1bc8.png

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Antti Salo
37 minutes ago, ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd said:

 

It is also mentionned in some nordic airports briefings, such as EFHK (Helsinki-Vantaa)

 

Actually EFHK isn’t really all that bitchy about APU use compared to many other European airports. The mention in the AIP is more of a polite reminder to be considerate, and it isn’t enforced in any way. In general APU is widely used for arrival and departure.

Actually there are no external A/C (cooling) units at the airport, so APU’s are widely used during entire turnarounds during summer. And even Finnair SOP is to start the APU on arrival. :)
 

But yes, ESSA, EKCH and ENGM do have more stringent rules, as do many other European airports. Many airports restrict the use of APU on arrival to ~5min after on-blocks, but I have never seen any airport forbid its use on arrival entirely.

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Andrew Wilson
On 6/20/2020 at 9:35 AM, ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd said:

Is this the normal way to proceed, or is there a flow allwing EXT power to be automatically connected to the aircraft ?

With the next update, you can use the MECH call button on the overhead to connect/disconnect GPU and control wheel chocks. 

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Brian Cowell

teeth.jpg    Sounds great — I look forward to it!

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Conner Pierce
On 6/20/2020 at 6:51 AM, Markus Burkhard said:

Single-engine taxi without APU is not a standard procedure, mostly due to system redundancy reasons. 

Does the version of the bus that FSL currently simulates allow for single engine taxi without APU?

I know Delta had a good majority of their fleet that couldn’t taxi single engine without APU due to needing another power source to discharge fire bottles for that running engine. They were later re-wired to allow single engine taxi without APU. 

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ay.m3r1ck |3ern4rd
12 hours ago, Antti Salo said:

Actually EFHK isn’t really all that bitchy about APU use compared to many other European airports. The mention in the AIP is more of a polite reminder to be considerate, and it isn’t enforced in any way. In general APU is widely used for arrival and departure.

Actually there are no external A/C (cooling) units at the airport, so APU’s are widely used during entire turnarounds during summer. And even Finnair SOP is to start the APU on arrival. :)
 

But yes, ESSA, EKCH and ENGM do have more stringent rules, as do many other European airports. Many airports restrict the use of APU on arrival to ~5min after on-blocks, but I have never seen any airport forbid its use on arrival entirely.

Very interresting ! Thank you !:D

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Koen Meier
9 hours ago, Andrew Wilson said:

With the next update, you can use the MECH call button on the overhead to connect/disconnect GPU and control wheel chocks. 

i kindly ask you if that can be made clear in the annoucement post. i feel like the majority will overlook such thing.

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