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Concorde v1.41 causing CTDs


Ray Proudfoot

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Konstantin

I am happy to learn that you are getting closer to nailing down the problem, but I find it sad if a particular Windows 10 version would be responsible for all of this. This means that any future Windows updates would need to be treated with great caution (or better to stop Windows updates for a while as long as your sim is running OK). This reduces the incentive for me to update my main computer to Windows 10 as soon as possible (I still run it on Windows 7). There were cases in the past when a Windows 10 update caused problems with P3D (I am thinking of the notorious "Create Child window" error).

I will keep my fingers crossed for you to solve the CTD problem. Good luck!

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Whatever, I've never claimed to be a computer expert, just trying to eliminate all possibilities which is the best way to isolate an issue speaking from experience.  If it is a rare combination o

I was able to complete the flight with absolutely no problems at all. You will find screenshots of my setup at the end of the video: Windows 10 v1909 Build 18363.836 Nvidia Studio 446.14 Late

A return flight back to Oslo was fine. Without wishing to put the mockers on this I’m reasonably confident the problem has been fixed. Tomorrow I shall reinstall GSX and after a few more flights, SODE

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Ray Proudfoot

Hi @Konstantin, I suppose it’s quite possible an earlier update broke things and the ones I applied today fixed it. That would appear to be in line what others feel about W10 updates. Hence why I bought the Pro version that allows updates to be deferred by up to 31 days.

So by holding back from applying the update it was aggravating the problem. One thing jumps out at me from the three months it’s taken to (hopefully) fix this. The importance of exchanging info between users. Had @Mirza Begnot supplied his build version I would have been none the wiser.

I will make a note of the build number and date and should any further updates cause a problem I’ll have a reference point I can return to. I’m reluctant to turn off updates. For now a huge wave of relief is flooding over me. It’s taken three months of effort to have some trouble-free flights.

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Ray Proudfoot

Seems I was wrong about the CTDs being cured by those Windows updates. I installed FTX Global, Aerosoft Oslo and London Heathrow airports and was 90nm out of Heathrow at FL350, Mach 0.89 and 30nm off the Essex coast when P3D just CTD.

This is extremely depressing. I'm perplexed that I seem to be the only person who has these problems. It's not as though I have installed loads of 3rd party addons that could be responsible. They are all established addons. I feel I have no alternative now but to revert to v1.39 and see how stable that is.

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Konstantin

Oh no - sorry to learn that the CTDs can't leave you in peace. :(  Trying v1.39 is now the only option you have (aside from a Windows 10 clean install, which would be quite extensive). I don't believe the problem lies in the add-ons - after all, the CTDs occurred on a clean P3D install prior to performing the Windows update.

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Ray Proudfoot

v1.39 caused P3D to crash with FSL_Events.dll as the cause. What was I doing? Adding keyboard shortcuts to Hydraulics and Brake sub-panels.

Ticket raised for access to v1.40. Unless I can get that version installed I fail to see how I can prove that v1.41 contains a problem. But given the whole Concorde package is so dependent on the state of Windows 10 updates it seems those who chose to lock their PCs from updates probably made the right decision. We really do need a 64-bit version for either MFS or P3Dv5.

But with so few people now active in this forum you have to wonder how many are still flying her.

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Konstantin

I reckon there must be a problem with the whole interaction between Concorde-X and Windows 10 on your computer. Maybe there are some leftover dll-files or MS redistributables that were not removed after all your installations and uninstalls, or some registry issues?  That's just a guess. I personally believe that your Windows 10 state might be the culprit, since the problem doesn't happen with other users and their v1.41. Maybe you could backup your current system and do a Windows 10 fresh install to give it a try?  I would be sad to see you giving up on Concorde entirely...

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Norman Blackburn
2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Ticket raised for access to v1.40. 

Hi Ray,

I'm happy to say here the same as I would do in a ticket.  We don't keep old builds.  Additionally we have said countless times that we only support the latest build.

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Ray Proudfoot

But how many people are running v1.41 with an up-to-date Windows 10? Only Mirza has responded. Kyp has locked 10 from updates, Norman doesn’t have it installed and there’s been no response from Lefteris or Andrew. And you aren’t near your PC to check. Can you recall running v1.41 with an up to date W10? I was okay with v1.40 but maybe a Windows update broke things rather than v1.41. Before October things were fine.

The problem is definitely linked the the INS / CIVA programs and these crashes occur around changes in waypoints. But unless FSL issue some guidance on how to run it with W10 I’m clutching at straws.

Even if I backup my system and reinstall Windows (the PC is only 16 months old) how could I restore P3Dv4 with all its addons without starting afresh?

I’d rather uninstall Concorde and CIVA and then manually search and remove all FSL entries in the Registry.

Its interesting to note that uninstalling Concorde does not remove three DLLs from the DLL folder in its installed location within P3D. Why not because it should.

I’m very despondent at present because I’ve busted a gut trying to find the problem and have failed.

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Ray Proudfoot
1 minute ago, Norman Blackburn said:

Hi Ray,

I'm happy to say here the same as I would do in a ticket.  We don't keep old builds.  Additionally we have said countless times that we only support the latest build.

Okay, understood. Is anyone at FSL prepared to work with me to find and fix the problem? Team Viewer session perhaps?

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Norman Blackburn

Actually Ray I DO have it installed.  I had to remove it from my SSD but have reinstalled v3 in the past few days on 1 2TB SATA drive I use for backups.  I don't however have the time to do a transatlantic flight in Pointy in the foreseeable. 

 

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Ray Proudfoot

Norman, is your Windows 10 install up to date? Version 1909 and build 18363.657?

You said in an earlier post FSL only support the latest version. Given I had this CTD on a flight from Oslo to Heathrow that occurred less than an hour into it it certainly doesn’t require a 3.5 hour flight.

I have raised two tickets so far and have not received any support. Can I formally request it here please? A Team Viewer session would be fine.

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Norman Blackburn

Ray,

Nice try however TV sessions are when people are having an issue in getting things initially sorted.  A forum request doesn't help bump you up the queue.  With very limited resources it would be very unfair on those also waiting for such support.  For you, clearly your sim was working in the past however something has occurred since. 

Yes you made those tickets but you also made the same requests here of which John (who is part of our team) has said he will when able look at the same flight.  Given however you seem to be the only one suffering this issue I struggle to see how it is anything other than a local issue.

My windows remains on 1903 at the moment.

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Ray Proudfoot

Norman, @John Barnesposted a week ago that he would try to find time last weekend. He clearly didn’t have the time but it’s disappointing he hasn’t replied.

I need some guidance on how to remove all evidence of Concorde from my system including the registry so I can try for a clean install. Can someone make that available please?

Given I was a beta tester myself I’m no slouch on computers or flying Concorde. After all the public exposure I have given this product over the years showing it at Cosford and in the Concorde hangar at Manchester Airport a little support in return isn’t asking too much, surely?

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Ray Proudfoot
8 minutes ago, Norman Blackburn said:

My windows remains on 1903 at the moment.

Crikey! Have you blocked all updates too? That is a very old version. :o Is that official FSL policy not to update beyond 1903?

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Norman Blackburn

Ray,

You know we do this on an as and when basis so less of trying to heap on some guilt would be appreciated.

The best and ABSOLUTE way to remove all evidence is a format.  That way you and we know a standard.  

1903 No - my son plays a game that he doesnt want this PC to be updated.

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Ray Proudfoot

Norman, I’m struggling to understand what constitutes support. This product is supported until 30 June. Just telling a user to format and start again is hardly helpful when my P3D v4 install with 3rd party aircraft and many airports runs fine. Just this one aircraft in a clean P3D v3 causes problems. And I have to wipe everything to fix it with no guarantee it will? That is extremely disappointing.

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Norman Blackburn

Hi Ray.

Support is for the product.  It is not for your whole windows ecosystem.  For you things were working.  Now they are not.  And in one specific part of the globe each and every time.  And yet others can fly the same route.

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Ray Proudfoot
13 minutes ago, Norman Blackburn said:

Hi Ray.

Support is for the product.  It is not for your whole windows ecosystem.  For you things were working.  Now they are not.  And in one specific part of the globe each and every time.  And yet others can fly the same route.

But the product and a user’s PC are inextricably linked.

The problems started after v1.41 was installed. And the problem has occurred in multiple places - off Anglesey, St George’s Channel, off Portugal and 25 nm from OWENZ. All that in a default P3D having blitzed my existing version.

The problem did not occur with a default Raptor. Not an unreasonable assumption to assume it’s connected to the INS code in Concorde especially when leaving it off and navigating using TRK HDG results in no CTD.

We’re talking singular with another successful test of the route I provided, not multiple users.

Having spent a lot of time testing various scenarios and whittling it down to the INS I would have thought that would have been helpful. What DLLs does the INS use and where are they located? I’m extremely reluctant to wipe Windows and start again unless I get some cast iron guarantee it will solve the problem in all flights, not just one test flight.

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Ray Proudfoot

I’m going to follow @Kyprianos Biris checklist here for uninstalling and reinstalling. There are a couple of folders I have not included for Defender to ignore. Worth a try. 

 

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Ray Proudfoot

Hi John,

Sorry to hear that. Hope you're feeling better now. Could you give me the following info please...

  • Windows 10 Build number and version.
  • Nvidia driver version
  • What settings you have in Defender for P3D v3 and any specific ones for Concorde.

I tried Oslo-Heathrow again this morning with one change from yesterday. I turned off Defender. I just don't trust that anti-virus as it has blocked AS16 from running when it's as clean as a whistle.

I figured the Concorde code for running the INSs would only cause a problem where changes were made like adding a new set of legs. Otherwise it just runs and calculates things. Anyway, I passed the point where I had the CTD yesterday and was hopeful I could complete the flight. Sadly, it crashed 30nm further along as I crossed the Essex coast inbound to LAM. :(

People have suggeested a clean install of Windows should fix it but that is absolutely the last resort. I ask myself why - on the LHR-JFK run - a gauge would work perfectly for 3 hours and then fail with no error trapping by Windows 25nm from OWENZ. Totally illogical. What new process was it running after 3 hours? I can't think of one. So I suppose it could be a Windows file but having to wipe and start again is a prospect that fills me with dread. Why the INS you ask? Because I flew Concorde on the LPPT-EGCC route with it turned off and there were no CTDs.

Can anyone tell me what DLL if any the INS uses?

John, I look forward to your report. Thanks for helping with this problem.

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John Barnes

Send me the route  Ray.

Windows Version    10.0.18362 Build 18362
Driver version 26.21.14.4187

No changes made to defender apart from allowing all folders flightsim related.

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Ray Proudfoot
10 minutes ago, John Barnes said:

Send me the route  Ray.

Version    10.0.18362 Build 18362
Driver version 26.21.14.4187

No changes made to defender apart from allowing all folders flightsim related.

Your behind me. I'm on V 1909 Build 18363.657. Any chance you could update before the test? That's 441.87. Okay. I'm on 382.05 - older drivers but assured as okay by others.

3 minutes ago, John Barnes said:

Ok will give it a spin later.

Thanks. Critical point is waypoint between Ireland and SW Wales. You should be throttling back by there. I've had repeated CTDs at that point.

I've just added two entries for exclusion by Defender based on Kyp's post on Uninstalling and installing. Going to try ENGM-EGLL again.

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Ray Proudfoot

v3.4.22.19868. Default install with that CTD near Ireland.

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Ray Proudfoot

Third time I've had a CTD around the same area. ODROB waypoint 30nm off the Essex coast. Weird how it does this. Going to uninstall Concorde and double-check everything is removed. It's beginning to look like a Windows reinstall is my only option left. But in 30 years of computing and flight sim I've never had a problem like this that only manifests itself around particular lat / lon points. Baffling, truly baffling.

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Ray Proudfoot

Here is the Oslo - Heathrow flight plan if anyone would care to fly it. I get a consistent CTD as I pass ODROB, just off the Essex coast. Accel point is VIPPA.

Plan your decel and descent to be at FL350, Mach 0.95 at ODROB. The STAR into Heathrow is the Lambourne with a straight in over London. It takes around 1h 5m to fly.

I shall try this tomorrow in TRK HDG mode. All efforts to engage INS eventually cause a CTD with no message from P3D or Event Viewer. Thanks to those assisting me. :)

ENGMEGLL99.pln

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Ray Proudfoot
22 hours ago, John Barnes said:

Ok will give it a spin later.

How did the flight go John?

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Ray Proudfoot

I have been advised by @Norman Blackburn that the only way to cure this problem is by performing a format of my C drive. But there is no evidence that there is any problem at all with my 16 month old Chillblast PC. P3D v4 runs fine as do all my other programs.

I have performed two system checks recommended by Microsoft. The first is Deployment Image Servicing and Management (DISM.exe).

I ran that and the log is attached. I then ran System File Check with Administrator rights. That reported no issues with the critical system files. Screenshot attached.

I also ran Resource Monitor whilst flying Oslo - London. It showed all system DLLs in use and nothing untoward.

P3D crashed at exactly the same position abeam the Essex coast as it did yesterday. On this particular flight it crashes at two positions - either between ODROB and ERING or 20 miles further along abeam the coastline. The only addon scenery is FTX Global and Aerosoft Heathrow Xtended.

I have AutoSave enabled. After the CTD I launched P3D and loaded the last saved flight. It flew perfectly all the way to a landing at EGLL.

If there was a corrupt system file (which there isn't because sfc confirms that) why didn't P3D crash at the same position after the autosave file was loaded?

Why do these crashes only occur when the INS is active? I flew LPPT-EGCC last week with it off and no crash.

The fact I can reproduce this CTD on such a short flight (less than 1 hour) means it is not unreasonable to request a member of the FS Labs support team fly it and report back. I'm awaiting a reply from John Barnes.

I have been flying this aircraft on two different PCs for over 6 years. I have never had a problem like this on any previous version. It has only started happening on v1.41. It is not unreasonable to assume the problem lies in v1.41 and whatever code was altered to correct the INS freezes.

No point raising a ticket. I know this topic is being subscribed to by FSL staff so I look forward to your reply.

SystemFileCheck.jpg

dism.log

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Andrew Wilson

Hi Ray,

I had a similar problem to you last year with the A320 series. Isolated CTD's but always in the same area. My issue turned out to be related to GSX or Sode. 

Do you have any Sode files installed? Goto %programdata% - do you see a folder named 12bPilot ? If so - uninstall Sode from the control panel and then delete this folder. 

Likewise - if you have anything GSX related, uninstall and delete any remaining files. 

It's unlikely to be Concorde or the CIVA INS causing this - I suspect something else is corrupting an area of memory that the Concorde/INS then tries to access; which is why others are unable to replicate the crash. 

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Ray Proudfoot

Hello Andrew, firstly thank you for replying. I was beginning to think I had been abandoned. We know each other pretty well. You know I am competent with Concorde and how to set things up.

Yes, I do have both GSX and SODE installed so I will disable both from running. I use SimStarterNG to start P3D and associated programs so it’s simple enough to disable both SODE and Couatl. It also explains why I never had the CTDs when the INS wasn’t powered up.

It seems strange I’m alone in having this problem when both SODE and GSX are popular addons. Perhaps others don’t use those addons.

It’s very straight forward to replicate the CTD. The ENGM-EGLL route is only 700nm and the CTD is reproducible every time. But the fact it doesn’t reoccur after a saved flight is loaded is baffling. Nor does it happen at my departure airport when I’m using GSX.

The weirdest place I had one was 25nm before OWENZ on the JFK run. Middle of nowhere!

Did you resolve that problem with the A320 and if so, are you confident it can be fixed with Concorde given it’s only started happening with v1.41. No to have access to GSX including multiple FSDreamTeam airports would be a blow. I’ll test tomorrow and report back.

Kind regards.

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Andrew Wilson

Hi Ray,

I resolved my issue by uninstalling Sode/GSX - deleting all remaining GSX/Sode related files and then re-installing the latest versions. So somewhere, there was a corrupt file causing the issue.

This might not be your issue - but it sounds like it's worth a shot given the similarities between the circumstances in which the crashes are occuring. 

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Ray Proudfoot

Hi Andrew, good advice. After deactivating both if the test flight is okay then I will install SODE and then add one airport at a time. Likewise with Couatl and DreamTeam airports. I have added those specialist SODE jetway files created by Cartayna and it’s possible some for v4 might be active for v3. I need to get them sorted. Anything is worth a shot after what I have been going through.

I can’t tell you how relieved I am over this. Weeks of investigating and testing and maybe, just maybe the end is in sight. :)

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John Barnes

I am using the latest sode. I don't get any crashes in them areas. Surely it would affect ANY aircraft passing that point? What support is given to CIVA INS these days. (Sorry Ray but not used it in so long) as i feel it may be more related to that. Is there anything else on V3 that utilises the INS?

 

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Ray Proudfoot
1 hour ago, John Barnes said:

I am using the latest sode. I don't get any crashes in them areas. Surely it would affect ANY aircraft passing that point? What support is given to CIVA INS these days. (Sorry Ray but not used it in so long) as i feel it may be more related to that. Is there anything else on V3 that utilises the INS?

Hi John,

No other aircraft in P3D v3 utilise the CIVA INS and it hasn't changed in years.

Are you saying you flew LPPT-EGCC or ENGM-EGLL and had no CTDs?  I tried the default Raptor on LPPT-EGCC and no crashes even with SODE and GSX active. Did that twice too. Then I flew Concorde with INS aligned but no flight plan loaded on LPPT-EGCC. Crashed between Ireland and Wales. Then tried same flight but with INSs off. No CTD. So everything pointed to the INS being responsible. This has only happened on v1.41.

After Andrew's post last night I edited add-ons.cfg in Program Data\LM\P3Dv3 and changed the SODE and FSDreamTeam entries to ACTIVE=false. That prevented SODE and FS DreamTeam Addon Manager from running. So no GSX or SODE was active on this morning's flight from ENGM-EGLL.

I passed both points where it had previously CTD and was hopeful the problem had been identified. I passed LAM and turned to a heading of 237 to intercept the 27R ILS. 10nm from the ILS P3D CTD on me. :( That is a real gut tearer.

Looking through the SODE.log it has entries for multiple airports only active in P3D v4. That was generated on yesterday's flight. No log on today's as it wasn't running. I do run other programs for a moving map on a WideFS PC. Aivlasoft's EFB and Little Navmap but those just read the aircraft's position and show it on a map. Can't see those being responsible. Had them ages.

The crazy thing is no event is shown in either Event Viewer or Appcrashview. So this is a weird error that the OS cannot trap. I'm out of ideas. :( I love this aircraft and want to continue flying her but these CTDs are driving me mad. Is there no possibility whatsoever the changes made to the frozen INS code could be causing these problems?

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Ray Proudfoot

@John Barnes, do you have v1.40 saved? If so, could you send me a link to it please? I really need to try that version because that was the last version that worked for me. If I can get successful flights with that then it opens up the possibility of something in v1.41 that could be the cause of these CTDs.

I know others including you have said 1.41 doesn't crash but how many people are using it and how many flights. I've had a couple of okay ones with v1.41 but otherwise it's been the start of these problems for me.

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Ray Proudfoot

Because this CTD occured at a different place than previous ones it's possible it was caused by a different problem. When Ultimate Traffic Live was launched via SimStarterNG an error message flashed on the screen briefly making it impossible to read. More importantly traffic were not injected in the sim. I launched the program manually.

I have uninstalled UTL and will try the flight again later. Crashing only 25nm from Heathrow with a lot of Ai injected could be the cause.

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Ray Proudfoot

Okay, thanks John. Flying ENGM-EGLL again but no UTL this time.

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Ray Proudfoot

The damn thing has just crashed again abeam ODROB. Same place as earlier in the week. No SODE or GSX running and now no UTL. What on earth is causing it? I really need v 1.40 to try. If it crashes with that one then I accept the problem lies on my machine.

But with no system file problems and never any problems in P3D v4 with loads of addons why am I and only I plagued with these CTDs? It makes no sense at all. :( Six years of flying this aircraft and it's never been this bad.

Just a possibility Little Navmap may be a problem. In appcrashview it is shown as Access Violation. One more flight without it running. Fingers crossed. Anyone else using this in P3D v3 and Concorde?

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Ray Proudfoot

This is the crash report in Event Viewer for Little Navmap Connect. A utility used to connect to LittleNavmap on a WideFS setup. Victim or cause? I should know in the next 30 mins.

Faulting application name: littlenavconnect.exe, version: 0.0.0.0, time stamp: 0x5a397fda
Faulting module name: Qt5Core.dll, version: 5.9.1.0, time stamp: 0x59539654
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x001f90b6
Faulting process ID: 0x1888
Faulting application start time: 0x01d5e98bdd8ce314
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files (x86)\LittleNavconnect\littlenavconnect.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Program Files (x86)\LittleNavconnect\Qt5Core.dll
Report ID: 2045d9cd-a524-48a3-a976-512971f69187
Faulting package full name:
Faulting package-relative application ID:

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Ray Proudfoot

Little Navmap Connect wasn't the problem. P3D still crashed without it running. Question. Do any of you run Aivlasoft Electronic Flight Bag? I do and I've had v1 and now v2 running for years. No way do I suspect  that but I'm running out of options.

But with no SODE, GSX, LittleNavMap and little 3rd party scenery I have nowhere else to look. I am pleading with FS Labs to look at the code for the changes to the INS freezes because I don't think I can do much more here.

It's all very well people saying they have no problems but they don't say what other software they're running. This place is extremely quiet. Where are all the regulars?

My only option now is to fly ENGM-EGLL with the INS shut down. That will be tomorrow now.

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Ray Proudfoot

This shows the status of the aircraft shortly after P3D crashed. Despite current waypoints being entered in the INS the aircraft did not turn right as it should have. I still suspect the INS code because it stopped working for no obvious reason.

Question. Have there been changes involving SimConnect and v1.41? EFB uses SimConnect. Might there be some clash taking place? I repeat. No crashes like this before v1.41. NONE!

ODROB.jpg

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