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Concorde v1.41 causing CTDs


Ray Proudfoot

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Ray Proudfoot

Since early November I have had numerous CTDs flying Concorde using v1.41 released in early October. I have installed a clean version of P3D v3.4 with only GoFlight drivers, GSX and Active Sky 16 installed which I have been using prior to 1.41 without any problems.

Yesterday on a flight from LHR to JFK P3D CTD 30nm from OWENZ after 3 hours of normal flight. If I'm getting CTDs on a clean P3D install then the problem must be caused by something else and that has to be v1.41. In various posts I have made on this forum prior to October 2019 I never mentioned this CTD problem and that's because I never had them.

I have raised a ticket with support. I don't have the 1.40 installer but if anyone has could they please make it available to me so I can test that version which I'm certain will not result in a CTD.

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Whatever, I've never claimed to be a computer expert, just trying to eliminate all possibilities which is the best way to isolate an issue speaking from experience.  If it is a rare combination o

I was able to complete the flight with absolutely no problems at all. You will find screenshots of my setup at the end of the video: Windows 10 v1909 Build 18363.836 Nvidia Studio 446.14 Late

A return flight back to Oslo was fine. Without wishing to put the mockers on this I’m reasonably confident the problem has been fixed. Tomorrow I shall reinstall GSX and after a few more flights, SODE

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Kyprianos Biris

Ray were you running AI traffic ?

Off course it may have nothing to do with it, just asking.

 

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Ray Proudfoot
3 minutes ago, Kyprianos Biris said:

Ray were you running AI traffic ?

Off course it may have nothing to do with it, just asking.

 

No traffic Kyp. The only things running were those I listed. Are you running v1.41?

 

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Kyprianos Biris

Yes, I just updated it in my signature since I didn't have it included.

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Ray Proudfoot

Kyp, do you have the v1.40 installer?

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Ray Proudfoot

For reference my W10 version is 1909 and the build number is 18363.592.

I see others have read this topic and it would be helpful if you could post your OS version and whether v1.41 is okay for you.

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Konstantin

Hi Ray,

I am currently at a location where I don't have my main computer, so I don't have access to my Concorde downloads (and I am not sure if I have even installed version 1.41), but did the support help you, or were you able to download an earlier version? 

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Ray Proudfoot

Hi @Konstantin. No reply from support and no offers to supply v1.40.

It would be helpful to know if you have completed a flight with v1.41 and have Windows 10 up to date. Kyp has stopped updates on 10 which leads me to believe it may be a Windows update that has caused the problem.

Without feedback from others who keep W10 up to date it’s not possible to come to a definitive conclusion.

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Konstantin

Do you remember when you deleted the older Concorde installers?  I would consider trying a file recovery program. If you delete a file (even after deleting it from the recycle bin), you don't necessarily delete it physically. I have used "Recuva" with good success. Maybe you have some backups, where older installers could still be present?

I would like to provide an older installer if I could. I am disappointed by the FSL support - it can't be that hard by the administration to give you a link to an older file...

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Ray Proudfoot

I keep the current version on a NAS box but deleted v1.40 when Lefteris supplied 1.41. I’ll try the files you’ve provided. Thank you. :)

It would seem we’ve been abandoned by support. :(

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Ray Proudfoot

Perhaps the entire FS Labs Support team are on holiday. Ticket raised Thursday morning and still no response. Disappointing. :(

The maintenance for the Support Ticket system has been going on for years. Again, disappointing that such a popular supplier doesn't have a proper system where tickets can be viewed.

Support.png?dl=0

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Lefteris Kalamaras

Ray, 

Here we go again. You change something on your end, something breaks and it's fslabs needing to fix. 

We would prefer not to have to go through what happened last time you started badmouthing our support team. Consider this your warning. Thanks. 

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Norman Blackburn

Ray,

Your ticket was raised and is identical to your post here in the forum.  We know you know we are watching here and you are getting the same answers from the community.

In any event we try to answer tickets within a couple of business days so even if we hadn't seen it... let's leave it at that since I see Lefteris has also posted.  I think I can also in good conscience close the ticket since the answer would have been similar to his reply.

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Ray Proudfoot
1 hour ago, Lefteris Kalamaras said:

Ray, 

Here we go again. You change something on your end, something breaks and it's fslabs needing to fix. 

We would prefer not to have to go through what happened last time you started badmouthing our support team. Consider this your warning. Thanks. 

Lefteris, the most negative word I used above was disappointing. Are you really upset about that??? I don't consider that 'badmouthing'.

Given I have wiped my original P3D and installed a new version with no addons and the CTDs continue it is not an unreasonable deduction that the cause might be v1.41. I didn't say the problem lay with v1.41, only that it might.

I suppose had I locked my OS from updates things might be okay. As it stands I'm liaising with another user to test v1.39 and if I get the CTDs with that one then the only differences are down to Windows updates.

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Ray Proudfoot
1 hour ago, Norman Blackburn said:

Ray,

Your ticket was raised and is identical to your post here in the forum.  We know you know we are watching here and you are getting the same answers from the community.

In any event we try to answer tickets within a couple of business days so even if we hadn't seen it... let's leave it at that since I see Lefteris has also posted.  I think I can also in good conscience close the ticket since the answer would have been similar to his reply.

Norman, it would be helpful if anyone from FSL could confirm no problems with Concorde v1.41 and supply Windows version and build number and Nvidia driver version. Thank you.

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Norman Blackburn

I had none right up until a few weeks ago when my GPU died and I replaced it with a 2060.  I needed the HD space for something else and removed v3.

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Ray Proudfoot
2 minutes ago, Norman Blackburn said:

I had none right up until a few weeks ago when my GPU died and I replaced it with a 2060.  I needed the HD space for something else and removed v3.

Understood, thanks. Perhaps someone else could provide the info I requested.

Incidentally Norman, I received an email that showed I had received an official warning from you but there's no evidence of that here in the forum. Was it rescinded?

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Norman Blackburn
Just now, Ray Proudfoot said:

ncidentally Norman, I received an email that showed I had received an official warning from you but there's no evidence of that here in the forum. Was it rescinded?

Yes.  Even I have a heart Ray.

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Ray Proudfoot
8 minutes ago, Norman Blackburn said:

Yes.  Even I have a heart Ray.

Thanks Norman. It did seem strange given how much I have promoted Concorde over the years. Heck, I even bought dinner for Lefteris at Lelystad back in 2017 so my relationship with the team is pretty decent over the years. :)

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Ray Proudfoot

I tried two flights today with v1.41. EGCC to LPPT which was fine. Flying LPPT back to EGCC P3D crashed at exactly the same point as last week. Just after passing a waypoint and an autosave had just finished. See attached image.

I was running Proc Monitor so have a log. Quite a huge one. So somewhere in there is an entry that may provide a clue for the crash. Does anyone have experience with Proc Monitor who could assist please.

I flew very close to this point on the outbound flight so why it would crash on the return is baffling.

ConcordeCrash.png

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Ray Proudfoot

The only way to nail this problem of CTDs is to fly the same route with a default aircraft. This morning I loaded up the F22 Raptor (default) and flew the same route as I flew with Concorde. The first time was completely successful. So I tried it again and the second time was again, completely successful.

This afternoon I'm going to fly the same route with Concorde v1.41. Oh, and the same addons were used - GoFlight drivers, GSX and Active Sky 16.

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Ray Proudfoot

Concorde has just CTD within a couple of miles from the same position yesterday. It is definitely located related. Attached is a screenshot of the INSs around 20 seconds before the CTD.

There is a runways.bin file generated by the installation. Could that be the cause of these problems? Any other data files that could cause it? I've had the same CTD in the same place multiple times now. I was running Process Monitor so will try to examine that log for the cause but I'm no expert.

CTD.jpg

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Ray Proudfoot

This is the flight plan used where I get a consistent CTD. Depart 03 on the BUSEN SID. FL280 until BUSEN. After the turn to the north engage reheat and start climb.

The CTD for me occurs at waypoint 6 - 52N6W when the decel should have just commenced. To your left is Ireland 20nm away and to the right is Wales, again 20nm away.

If P3D doesn't CTD at that point then on passing WAL turn ENE for a 23R arrival or SSE for a 05R landing. But that would be odd if I can reproduce it consistently with a default P3D install.

For those of you not using CPS-X load 69 pax and 37.8T of fuel. vR is 139kts. Reheats on for 46 secs for take-off.

LPPT-EGCC01.pln

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Vimal Anandharaman

I do recall having a similar problem with crashing at a particular location with earlier builds. It had something to do with some kind of terrain conflict? I cant really remember what I did to solve it. Try messing around with the sliders that control mesh. 

 

 

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Ray Proudfoot

Thank you Vimal. I have LoD at Ultra, Tess Factor at High, Mesh at 5m, Texture res at 30cm. Nothing excessive as I need to manage VAS. That part of Ireland and Wales is not particularly hilly either.

I appreciate your suggestion all the same.

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Ray Proudfoot

I've just flown another test flight LPPT-EGCC with one significant change. I did not load a flight plan into the INSs. I entered my current position and aligned them but for the flight I used TRK HDG adjusting it as required.

I passed the point where the CTD had occured in previous flights and that was encouraging. Descended down to 10,000ft and decelerating to 250kts I was 4nm from MIRSI  - a hold for EGCC. At that point the sim crashed. No entry in Event Viewer.

I remain convinced these problems lie in the INSs especially when the release notes state... "v1.41 is a small maintenance release that updates the Concorde-X for FSX and P3D v3 to save selected options properly, as well as fix the problem with the freezing INS instruments."

The fact that I have flown this exact route twice in a default aircraft without problem leaves me in no doubt that the cause of these CTDs lies in the Concorde code for v1.41. By a process of elimination it cannot be anything else.

It's disappointing that no-one has downloaded the flight plan I made available on Tuesday. I have spent hours trying to find the cause of these CTDs. The website info for Concorde states "Support for the following simulator platforms will continue until June 30, 2020." So still another 4 months left then.

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John Barnes
7 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I've just flown another test flight LPPT-EGCC with one significant change. I did not load a flight plan into the INSs. I entered my current position and aligned them but for the flight I used TRK HDG adjusting it as required.

I passed the point where the CTD had occured in previous flights and that was encouraging. Descended down to 10,000ft and decelerating to 250kts I was 4nm from MIRSI  - a hold for EGCC. At that point the sim crashed. No entry in Event Viewer.

I remain convinced these problems lie in the INSs especially when the release notes state... "v1.41 is a small maintenance release that updates the Concorde-X for FSX and P3D v3 to save selected options properly, as well as fix the problem with the freezing INS instruments."

The fact that I have flown this exact route twice in a default aircraft without problem leaves me in no doubt that the cause of these CTDs lies in the Concorde code for v1.41. By a process of elimination it cannot be anything else.

It's disappointing that no-one has downloaded the flight plan I made available on Tuesday. I have spent hours trying to find the cause of these CTDs. The website info for Concorde states "Support for the following simulator platforms will continue until June 30, 2020." So still another 4 months left then.

However i HAVE re downloaded Concorde and P3d V3 just to test this. Unfortunately, i cannot do so until i have the time at the weekend.

Rgds

JB

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Ray Proudfoot
5 hours ago, John Barnes said:

However i HAVE re downloaded Concorde and P3d V3 just to test this. Unfortunately, i cannot do so until i have the time at the weekend.

Rgds

JB

Thank you John. With a default P3D v3.4 install plus v1.41 I am confident you will be able to recreate the CTD.

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Mirza Beg
On 2/13/2020 at 9:58 AM, Ray Proudfoot said:

Thank you John. With a default P3D v3.4 install plus v1.41 I am confident you will be able to recreate the CTD.

yes, I have latest Nvidia Drivers installed, and latest windows 10 updates installed. I have core isolation enabled also... along with Malwarebytes premium, and ESET Security Premium

 

 

Downloaded your LPPT-EGCC PLN File Route... Just completed flight NO CRASHES (CTDS!) I don't have any airport scenery installed either for  both airports just fyi! Just some orbx.. but i keep that at a minimal since 4 gb 32 bit memory limit.. I attached the scenery also here from orbx that i do have installed... just so u know what scenery for prepar3d v3 i got.. oh, and i DO NOT have spotlights installed.. Maybe that's what's causing the crashes for you? I had AS 16 running with efass ng too! 

RAY .. I recommend reinstalling your windows system.. endless you have already tried  that?

have you tried concorde 1.40? I may actually have that copy backed on my external but I would have to check! 

I run 3  monitors also! my main monitor is a AOC (display port)  144 Hz Monitor.. the other 2 monitors are 60 Hz 27 Inch monitors.. actually all 3 monitors are 27 inch
I do notice i have random black flickering here and there if I dont have Prepar3D V3 NOT in full screen mode but no crashes... I've done KJFK - EGLL flight a few times also! I used the raw route for that flight from one of the route threads in concorde forum here.

Screenshot_3.png.c35383be068472272849dc1b3244ecec.png

Screenshot_2.png

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Ray Proudfoot
4 hours ago, Mirza Beg said:

Downloaded your LPPT-EGCC PLN File Route... Just completed flight NO CRASHES (CTDS!) I don't have any airport scenery installed either for  both airports just fyi! Just some orbx.. but i keep that at a minimal since 4 gb 32 bit memory limit.. I attached the scenery also here from orbx that i do have installed... just so u know what scenery for prepar3d v3 i got.. oh, and i DO NOT have spotlights installed.. Maybe that's what's causing the crashes for you? I had AS 16 running with efass ng too! 


RAY .. I recommend reinstalling your windows system.. endless you have already tried  that?

have you tried concorde 1.40? I may actually have that copy backed on my external but I would have to check! 

I run 3  monitors also! my main monitor is a AOC (display port)  144 Hz Monitor.. the other 2 monitors are 60 Hz 27 Inch monitors.. actually all 3 monitors are 27 inch
I do notice i have random black flickering here and there if I dont have Prepar3D V3 NOT in full screen mode but no crashes... I've done KJFK - EGLL flight a few times also! I used the raw route for that flight from one of the route threads in concorde forum here.

Thanks Mirza. I take it you completed the flight and landed at Manchester. Reinstalling the OS would be an option if the problem was more widespread. The fact I could fly a default Raptor on the same route twice without issue shows there's nothing wrong with my P3D v3 installation or Windows itself. I also have P3D v4 and have completed multiple flights with no CTDs. Just the combination of P3D v3 and Concorde v1.41.

If you have v1.40 I'd very much appreciate a link to it.

I have just the one UHD monitor downscaled to 1920*1080 and run P3D in full-screen mode. What graphics card are you using?

20 minutes ago, AdrianSmith said:

Ray have you tried the flight with the INS switched off completely?

Equally have you tried a full delete and reinstall of CIVA?

Adrian, that was going to be my next test. INSs off. If that still results in a CTD I'll uninstall and reinstall CIVA. One change at a time otherwise I won't know what (if anything) fixed the problem. But advice suggests it's not necessary to uninstall CIVA with a version update of Concorde.

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Mirza Beg
1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Thanks Mirza. I take it you completed the flight and landed at Manchester. Reinstalling the OS would be an option if the problem was more widespread. The fact I could fly a default Raptor on the same route twice without issue shows there's nothing wrong with my P3D v3 installation or Windows itself. I also have P3D v4 and have completed multiple flights with no CTDs. Just the combination of P3D v3 and Concorde v1.41.

If you have v1.40 I'd very much appreciate a link to it.

I have just the one UHD monitor downscaled to 1920*1080 and run P3D in full-screen mode. What graphics card are you using?

Adrian, that was going to be my next test. INSs off. If that still results in a CTD I'll uninstall and reinstall CIVA. One change at a time otherwise I won't know what (if anything) fixed the problem. But advice suggests it's not necessary to uninstall CIVA with a version update of Concorde.

I have Nvidia 2080 TI with latest drivers. Yes i did full flight with PLN u asked me to use... had no CTD at all. i started cold n dark took off then landed.. no issues

 

and i only have concorde 1.39 and older.. for some reason i never backed up 1.40  concorde  

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Ray Proudfoot

@Mirza Beg, thanks for that. I’m going to try the flight again leaving the INSs off.

When you uninstalled v1.40 did you uninstall CIVA too?

Given you have been able to fly that route with v1.41 I’m going to persevere with it. CIVA could be the problem.

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Mirza Beg
14 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Mirza Beg, thanks for that. I’m going to try the flight again leaving the INSs off.

When you uninstalled v1.40 did you uninstall CIVA too?

Given you have been able to fly that route with v1.41 I’m going to persevere with it. CIVA could be the problem.

 I installed the concorde 1.41 off a fresh Windows 10 Install so i installed civa right off the bat with 1.41

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Ray Proudfoot

Finally, a breakthrough. Just completed LPPT-EGCC with no CTD. What did I do differently to the last flight? I never turned on the INSs. Navigation purely by TRK HDG. This points to a corrupt INS / CIVA installation. But why should it cause a CTD when the CIVA exe is years old?

Maybe @Lefteris Kalamarascan answer that question. Did the changes you made to the INS code require a clean install of the whole of the Concorde package including the CIVA package?

Could those who have no problems with v1.41 confirm if they also removed the CIVA installation when running the update? I didn't. Maybe that's the difference between those for whom v1.41 works and me where it didn't. @Mirza Beg had no problems with a clean install.

Full uninstall of Concorde and CIVA now starting.

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Ray Proudfoot

This is totally exasperating! After reinstalling Concorde v1.41 and CIVA I flew LPPT-EGCC again. No CTD as it reached the mid-way point between Ireland and Wales. I continued to WAL VOR and then turned to a heading of 063 towards MIRSI. At 4nm before MIRSI P3D crashed. Exactly the same point as last Thursday's flight.  EXACTLY THE SAME POSITION. 4DME FROM MIRSI.

There is no scenery that could cause this crash. It's a default P3D install. Everything is default.

My last waypoint in the INS was LYNAS. Thereafter I was using TRK HDG to alter my heading. I've had this issue before when using TRK HDG with the INS alive but no flight plan loaded. TRK HDG has only been problem-free when the INS is shutdown.

@Mirza Beg, when you flew this route did you enter all the STAR waypoints after LYNAS into the INS? Or did you use TRK HDG as I've just done? That could be critical in determining if there's a bug in the INS code.

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Ray Proudfoot

Flying the route again but this time all waypoints up to and including MIRSI have been added to the INS. Let's see what happens this time.

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Ray Proudfoot

Crashed again at waypoint 6 which happens to be the place where the next segment of waypoints has to be loaded. Coincidence?

Clean install of P3D, Concorde and CIVA. I'm out of ideas. But given I have flown this aircraft for over 6 years and have flown this particular route more times than any other I know this is not a problem I had before v1.41.

I was hoping @John Barnes would test the route for me. Maybe he is busy on other things. But the complete lack of support from FS Labs is particularly disappointing.

So FS Labs, if I raise a ticket will you please investigate this problem?

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Konstantin

I would ask @Mirza Beg to send you v1.39 and do a clean install. You didn't have a problem with this version in the past, so this is the last resort for you...

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Ray Proudfoot

@Konstantin, that is certainly one option. But before that I need to know how he navigated the remaining part of the route after the last waypoint in the flight plan I attached to an earlier message.

He did one of two things. 1) Entered relevant waypoints into the INS manually or 2) engaged TRK HDG mode and adjusted heading for downwind, base and approach. It was 2 that I used and I've done that in the past on numerous flights.

 

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Mirza Beg
2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Konstantin, that is certainly one option. But before that I need to know how he navigated the remaining part of the route after the last waypoint in the flight plan I attached to an earlier message.

He did one of two things. 1) Entered relevant waypoints into the INS manually or 2) engaged TRK HDG mode and adjusted heading for downwind, base and approach. It was 2 that I used and I've done that in the past on numerous flights.

 

I flew on INS alll the way to the final way point. then slowed down descended and last few miles before airport used tracker heading so i could turn right then left to VOR Lock onto runway 05L

check your private messages in 10 minutes.. @Ray Proudfoot

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Ray Proudfoot
10 minutes ago, Mirza Beg said:

I flew on INS alll the way to the final way point. then slowed down descended and last few miles before airport used tracker heading so i could turn right then left to VOR Lock onto runway 05L

check your private messages in 10 minutes.. @Ray Proudfoot

Hi Mirza, the final waypoint is LYNAS which is 95nm from EGCC. That would still put you around FL350. Are you saying that once you passed LYNAS you switched to TRK HDG and flew that mode until engaging VOR LCK?

I’m sorry for asking but it’s important I have a good understanding of the route you took after LYNAS. Did you pass over WAL VOR and MIRSI - the hold for westerly arrivals?

Looking out for a PM, thanks.

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Mirza Beg
10 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Hi Mirza, the final waypoint is LYNAS which is 95nm from EGCC. That would still put you around FL350. Are you saying that once you passed LYNAS you switched to TRK HDG and flew that mode until engaging VOR LCK?

I’m sorry for asking but it’s important I have a good understanding of the route you took after LYNAS. Did you pass over WAL VOR and MIRSI - the hold for westerly arrivals?

Looking out for a PM, thanks.

YES! i stayed on lynas until there was like 25 nm left on that.. cause i had to go into tracker heading to move to the right to lock on to vor lock for runway 05l..  gonna pm u right now

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Ray Proudfoot
3 minutes ago, Mirza Beg said:

YES! i stayed on lynas until there was like 25 nm left on that.. cause i had to go into tracker heading to move to the right to lock on to vor lock for runway 05l..  gonna pm u right now

That’s a very different approach to mine. Winds were from the south so it is a 23R landing. I’ll read your PM that has just arrived.

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Ray Proudfoot

I'm cautiously optimistic I may have fixed the problem. I've completed two flights - LPPT-EGCC and back. Both were fine.

Working on the principle that to resolve an error you should only change one thing and then test I thought about why Mirza could complete a flight and I couldn't. Both with W10, both with default P3D and both with Concorde v1.41.

But looking at his OS build number it was different to mine. His was 18363.657 whereas mine was 18363.592. I had been holding back on Windows updates because everyone knows they can cause problems. But in this case if he was running with those updates and he had no problems then they were worth trying. So I installed the updates and my build number now matched his and I departed LPPT.

Very nervous approaching the problem waypoint but I passed it okay and the next potential location was approaching MIRSI. But that was okay too. Landed and after a break for lunch went for the return back to Lisbon.

That was fine too so I'm crossing my fingers it's fixed. Only more flights will prove that one way or another. This is the first two flights I've had that haven't resulted in CTDs in a few months. The attached shows the updates I applied today. Looks like one of them fixed it but which?

I'm very grateful for the help and suggestions from @Konstantin and @Mirza Beg.

18Feb_Updates.png

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