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A321 newbie question: Flaps 3 for TO?


Stu Antonio

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Stu Antonio

Hi there,

just a quick question it this seems legit: yesterday I took the 321 out for the first time, and I was surprised that the perf calculation gave me flaps „3“ when I used the „opt“ setting upon request. 

I used flaps 3 as suggested and on VR the plane took off almost automatically with very very little input in the stick and with a very high v/s.

Is this normal/ the way they usually do it?

Flight was nothing special, MUC-TXL, weather ok, TOW was 77t.

greets

Stu

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Simon Kelsey

Hi Stu,

However, the rotation thing sounds more like the trim might not be set correctly -- definitely checked the MACTOW in the payload page etc?

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Alessandro Dallago

In my experience, I have never taken off with anything other than config 2 in the a321 with various loads and flight times varying from 1h30min to nearly 7 hours.

Note: this is all sea level departures with no obstacles

The a320 however, config 1 all the way to 3 and using aerodata, it is quite a mixed bag.

I think config 3 may be possible? But in real life I've never experienced it

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Ryan Spellman

Flaps 3 is indeed a pretty common setting in the 321 when you are runway/obstacle restricted on take off such as at BUR or LGA. Opt is taking into consideration obstacles, second stage requirements,  cutback altitude, and an entire assortment. In fact, the most common takeoff setting in the 321 tends to be flaps 2 and not 1. When my last airline before I went corporate got their first few 321's, crews were often questioning why Aerodata was spitting off flaps 2 on a 14,500 foot runway for takeoff. 

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  • 9 months later...
Darren Howie
On 12/27/2019 at 5:58 PM, Stu Antonio said:

Hi there,

just a quick question it this seems legit: yesterday I took the 321 out for the first time, and I was surprised that the perf calculation gave me flaps „3“ when I used the „opt“ setting upon request. 

I used flaps 3 as suggested and on VR the plane took off almost automatically with very very little input in the stick and with a very high v/s.

Is this normal/ the way they usually do it?

Flight was nothing special, MUC-TXL, weather ok, TOW was 77t.

greets

Stu

What i would highly recommend is putting ina second perf request with either cfg 2 or 1 or do two requests and then YOU choose what you would prefer. Cfg 3 is often selected due to the lower V1 speeds cutting tyre wear.

Make the perf calculator work for you not the other way around.

Without hesitation at high weights id be manually selecting cfg 1 for better handling if im not runway or obstacle limited.

The number of things which go into individual airlines OPTIMUM slection is endless.

The lack of thought which also goes into many pilots aimlessly following OPT values when you could select and different cfg and get the very same flex and be in a far better situation given a failure/birdstrike on take off made me wonder if guys ever thought about what was going on in the background.

For me cfg 1 or two unless it limited perf on take off...

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Ross McDonagh
21 hours ago, Darren Howie said:

What i would highly recommend is putting ina second perf request with either cfg 2 or 1 or do two requests and then YOU choose what you would prefer. Cfg 3 is often selected due to the lower V1 speeds cutting tyre wear.

 

This is exactly what I do.  I’ll usually do an initial Perf request at optimum, then a forced 1/2 depending.  The other night at KBOS in the A320 with a wet runway and full pax-it kept spitting out flap 3 for optimum...  TOGA was required for F1/2 so I went with 3.  The computer looks for the highest flex  number it can get for the runway and I’ve usually seen that on longer runways the result is usually F3/Flex 70 (which iirc is the highest it can go) 

Running a 1+F/2 PERF calculation allows you to pick.  Do you want the higher gradient with F3 or the higher engine wear but fuel savings of F1-the choices are yours!

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Chris Parrott

I did a flight from SBSP a week or two ago, where the ATSU recommended Flaps 3 with a Flex T/O for runway 35L.  Flaps 1+F seems to be the most common for most airfields I fly out of, though.

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Robert Sutherland
On 10/18/2020 at 4:05 AM, Darren Howie said:

What i would highly recommend is putting ina second perf request with either cfg 2 or 1 or do two requests and then YOU choose what you would prefer. Cfg 3 is often selected due to the lower V1 speeds cutting tyre wear.

Make the perf calculator work for you not the other way around.

Without hesitation at high weights id be manually selecting cfg 1 for better handling if im not runway or obstacle limited.

The number of things which go into individual airlines OPTIMUM slection is endless.

The lack of thought which also goes into many pilots aimlessly following OPT values when you could select and different cfg and get the very same flex and be in a far better situation given a failure/birdstrike on take off made me wonder if guys ever thought about what was going on in the background.

For me cfg 1 or two unless it limited perf on take off...

This is really helpful advice, thank you! :) 

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