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Ray Proudfoot

Windows 10 Nvidia drivers that work with Concorde?

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Ray Proudfoot

I keep getting random crashes with Concorde v1.41 in P3D v4.3 on W10 Pro.

I’ve disabled UT Live and virtually all Addon scenery. I’ve been running 382.05 in W10 Pro without Spotlights but still these random crashes continue.

If I load an autosave it’s fine near the position where it previously crashed so it doesn’t appear to be scenery related.

There is no entry in Event Viewer which is baffling. Anyone recommend W10 drivers that work for them please?

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Fraser Gale

I have prevented my windows from updating for a long time now, to the point my machine is frozen in time.  All I can suggest is uninstalling any windows updates that you think might have gone in since the last stable version...

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Kyprianos Biris

Ray 376.33 WHQL have been working fine without crashes on my Win10 and P3Dv3 for years.

To prevent Win10 from updating them I have frozen them in time.

Google "windows 10 stop updates"

Spotlights work fine, no crash whatsoever for long time now.

Further details of my set up in my signature.

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Ray Proudfoot
40 minutes ago, Fraser Gale said:

I have prevented my windows from updating for a long time now, to the point my machine is frozen in time.  All I can suggest is uninstalling any windows updates that you think might have gone in since the last stable version...

That's not a practical solution I'm afraid. I've had this PC a year now and my memory is not that good to remember when I last had a crash-free flight. It's the lack of any entry in Event Viewer that is puzzling. What can cause a program to crash which the OS cannot detect?

18 minutes ago, Kyprianos Biris said:

Ray 376.33 WHQL have been working fine without crashes on my Win10 and P3Dv3 for years.

To prevent Win10 from updating them I have frozen them in time.

Google "windows 10 stop updates"

Spotlights work fine, no crash whatsoever for long time now.

Further details of my set up in my signature.

Kyp, you have a 970 and I have a 1080Ti. I downloaded the 376.33 W10 driver but when running it it said no compatible hardware could be found. So that version is not compatible with any 1080 or 2080 cards. This is getting ridiculous now. It seems Concorde users have to prevent updates to keep the system stable and cannot buy the latest graphics cards.

@Andrew Wilson and @Lefteris Kalamaras, do either of you have Concorde v1.41 running in P3D v3.4 and if so what drivers are you using? I'm assuming you both have a 1080Ti or better and are running Windows 10 for the Airbus products.

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Randy Reade
35 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Kyp, you have a 970 and I have a 1080Ti. I downloaded the 376.33 W10 driver but when running it it said no compatible hardware could be found. So that version is not compatible with any 1080 or 2080 cards.

It's not compatible with the 1080Ti, but it IS compatible with the 1080. You can modify the nVidia INF file to allow it to be installed on a 1080Ti. You can also prevent Windows from updating your video driver and still allow other updates.

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Ray Proudfoot
15 minutes ago, Randy Reade said:

It's not compatible with the 1080Ti, but it IS compatible with the 1080. You can modify the nVidia INF file to allow it to be installed on a 1080Ti. You can also prevent Windows from updating your video driver and still allow other updates.

That sounds a little unconventional. I'll need pointing to the inf file please and what to modify. You don't list any hardware in your sig. Is that what you have done for your 1080Ti?

 

@Fraser Gale, you don't list your hardware. What graphics card and driver version please?

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Randy Reade

I have a 1080. The instructions to modify the INF file (in the 376.33 driver) are located here.  To prevent Windows from updating the video driver, see here. I would suggest using DDU to remove the current driver (in safe mode) and disable your internet (or unplug) until the previous steps are completed. To change drivers in the future, you will need to re-enable driver changes using the Group Policy Editor again (set to Disabled or Not Configured). This is the method I used to lock in the 376.33 driver, which I think was the last one compatible with the x86 Spotlights.

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Ray Proudfoot

Thanks Randy. Somewhat complicated so I’ll need to take my time. Hopefully telling the OS I have a less powerful graphics card than is the case it won’t have any ill effects.

All this goes to show how much Concorde and FSL Spotlights would benefit from a bit of TLC making it compatible with more modern cards.

Back tomorrow...

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Randy Reade

Agreed.

Yes, those steps seem a bit daunting but are straightforward once you've done it once. If you encounter any graphics issues, you can just install any supported driver to get back. Good luck if you attempt it.

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Ray Proudfoot
1 minute ago, Randy Reade said:

Agreed.

Yes, those steps seem a bit daunting but are straightforward once you've done it once. If you encounter any graphics issues, you can just install any supported driver to get back. Good luck if you attempt it.

I won’t be doing this until tomorrow but it does beggar one question. Will my 1080Ti effectively operate as a 1080? That would not be a good move.

I would still like to hear from anyone who has drivers later than 376.33 in W10 and whether they have caused any problems.

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Randy Reade
18 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I won’t be doing this until tomorrow but it does beggar one question. Will my 1080Ti effectively operate as a 1080? That would not be a good move.

I wouldn't think your vram will get limited to 8GB or the GPU limited in speed or bandwidth. I would suggest running a benchmark before and after to test. Perhaps this site.

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Fraser Gale
2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

 

@Fraser Gale, you don't list your hardware. What graphics card and driver version please?

No offence @Ray Proudfoot but I personally don't think it's anyone's business what I own, hence I don't list my hardware for the whole world to see!

For your information I have the GeForce GTX1060 6GB.  I don't think you knowing this will help your situation though.  While I understand that many are on a constant quest to improve graphics, I tend to stick with a card for a long haul - if it ain't broke... Especially as the main issue for running the current sims is CPU.

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Ray Proudfoot

@Fraser Gale, the only reason I asked was to establish what combination of hardware and drivers produced a stable P3D v3 when running Concorde. Other than that I have no interest in people’s setups.

What drivers do you have running please? P3D or FSX?

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Konstantin

Why would you blame a graphics driver that used to work well and be stable in the past for your recent crashes?  Can you identify what module causes the crash when you see the crash report (at the time of the crash, not afterwards in the event viewer)?

On my system (W7), 382.05 has been working great without any problems, so I don't think the driver is the culprit. You can try 376.33, but I would not be comfortable installing a driver that is not officially compatible with your GPU.

I would rather try to undo a Windows 10 update that may have occurred recently. Can you use P3D's logbook to check when was your recent stable flight?

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Ray Proudfoot

@Konstantin, I don't fly Concorde on a regular basis so keeping track of when I last had a stable flight is not available to me. I've never used P3D's logbook. It's not possible to identify the cause of the problem because there is no entry in Event Viewer. The sim just pauses for a few seconds and then disappears off the screen. I can load an autosaved scenario and refly over the position where it crashed and it's fine. The crashes appear to be quite random.

No Ai is running and 3rd party scenery is very limited. I have had crashes over the open ocean but never at an addon airport where you might expect problems. The problem always occurs in flight.

I agree installing drivers not specifically for my card is not ideal but you know what they say about a drowning man and a straw. I'm going to stick to 382.05 and run with no addon airports at all. Just a default scenery.cfg.

The Concorde installation process displays a message saying 376.33 drivers should be used. It doesn't say what will happen if later ones are installed. Some clarification of that advisory message would be welcomed.

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Konstantin

Even if you don't use P3D's logbook, it automatically records your flights. Just go to Options - Pilot Records (I think), and you can check the dates, departures/destinations and flight times of your flights. Maybe it will help.

The phenomenon you described is indeed not normal. You can try to turn off the autosave function - maybe it is somehow related?  What add-ons are you using?

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Ray Proudfoot

My last completed flight was yesterday - EGLL-LPPT. Previous attempts had failed over the English Channel. I then flew LPPT to Manchester and all was fine until over Liverpool on the last phase of the flight. A reloaded autosave was fine and I completed the flight. All previous FSUIPC autosaves were available.

Addons? GoFlight drivers, AS16, FTX Global, Lisbon airport, UK2000 Manchester. UTX Europe. Nothing out of the ordinary. I've now installed 382.05 and followed Randy's link to prevent Nvidia updates. Will try a flight this PM.

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Randy Reade

Ray, the 376.33 drivers (or earlier) are required to prevent the DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE HUNG error when running the FSX/P3Dv3 version of Spotlights. If you are getting random CTDs, this will not help (unless you are having a video driver issue, in which case you'd be better off using the latest nVidia driver (441.20 as of this writing)). In your case I'd be looking at reducing the OC on your CPU or some other cause. 

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Fraser Gale
6 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Konstantin, I don't fly Concorde on a regular basis so keeping track of when I last had a stable flight is not available to me. I've never used P3D's logbook. It's not possible to identify the cause of the problem because there is no entry in Event Viewer. The sim just pauses for a few seconds and then disappears off the screen. I can load an autosaved scenario and refly over the position where it crashed and it's fine. The crashes appear to be quite random.

No Ai is running and 3rd party scenery is very limited. I have had crashes over the open ocean but never at an addon airport where you might expect problems. The problem always occurs in flight.

I agree installing drivers not specifically for my card is not ideal but you know what they say about a drowning man and a straw. I'm going to stick to 382.05 and run with no addon airports at all. Just a default scenery.cfg.

The Concorde installation process displays a message saying 376.33 drivers should be used. It doesn't say what will happen if later ones are installed. Some clarification of that advisory message would be welcomed.

Ray, I'm on the 376.33 as is advised.  

In my opinion, by telling you that you need that specific driver they are telling you what will happen if you use a later one...it won't work! 

My advise (for what it's worth) to anyone flying this bird is to freeze all hardware and software on their sim machine, otherwise they will find that this (now) legacy product becomes an unuseable one.  A pain yes, but it's the only option. 

Do you select scenery areas on and off in the library to conserve VAS? 

I once discovered that not having all the necessary areas on for a complete route cause a crash.  

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Ray Proudfoot
1 hour ago, Randy Reade said:

Ray, the 376.33 drivers (or earlier) are required to prevent the DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE HUNG error when running the FSX/P3Dv3 version of Spotlights. If you are getting random CTDs, this will not help (unless you are having a video driver issue, in which case you'd be better off using the latest nVidia driver (441.20 as of this writing)). In your case I'd be looking at reducing the OC on your CPU or some other cause. 

Randy, I uninstalled Spotlights a long time ago for that very reason. Later drivers than 376.33 appeared to work okay because I suspected these crashes were down to Ai or a scenery Addon. But when you get a crash in the North Atlantic nowhere near an Addon airport then the reason has to be something else.

Given the amount of time I fly Concorde in v3 I’m not going to compromise my entire system to get that aircraft to work. In all honesty I don’t know why FSL can’t spend some time making Spotlights compatible with later drivers. I assume that product is defunct unless you use 376.33.

I will be updating to the latest drivers. I did what you suggested about inhibiting Nvidia driver updates and with today’s W10 updates it wants to install a later one but keeps failing of course.

I have no real problems with P3Dv4. I’ll just have to accept that Concorde is effectively broken on my setup and will fly occasionally accepting a crash may occur but a reload from an autosave will allow me to continue. Thanks for your advice.

36 minutes ago, Fraser Gale said:

Ray, I'm on the 376.33 as is advised.  

In my opinion, by telling you that you need that specific driver they are telling you what will happen if you use a later one...it won't work! 

My advise (for what it's worth) to anyone flying this bird is to freeze all hardware and software on their sim machine, otherwise they will find that this (now) legacy product becomes an unuseable one.  A pain yes, but it's the only option. 

Do you select scenery areas on and off in the library to conserve VAS? 

I once discovered that not having all the necessary areas on for a complete route cause a crash.  

I wish they had been explicit with that advice rather than just that message. Later drivers do appear to work since I never have a crash at an airport - only when airborne and miles from anywhere.

The fact there has been no comment from FSL on this tells me they have effectively  abandoned it. It’s 376.33 or you’re stuffed. I only asked them what card and driver they use.

VAS has never been a problem. I just keep the sliders midway and that’s enough. If I had an error message to work with it would help but there’s nothing. Bloody frustrating seems to sum it up. :rolleyes: 

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Randy Reade
9 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

In all honesty I don’t know why FSL can’t spend some time making Spotlights compatible with later drivers. I assume that product is defunct unless you use 376.33.

Agree 100%.

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Antonino Fontana

I also have the same problem on FSX SE.

23 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I keep getting random crashes with Concorde v1.41 in P3D v4.3 on W10 Pro.

I’ve disabled UT Live and virtually all Addon scenery. I’ve been running 382.05 in W10 Pro without Spotlights but still these random crashes continue.

If I load an autosave it’s fine near the position where it previously crashed so it doesn’t appear to be scenery related.

There is no entry in Event Viewer which is baffling. Anyone recommend W10 drivers that work for them please?

 

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Ray Proudfoot
10 minutes ago, Antonino Fontana said:

I also have the same problem on FSX SE.

Unless you’re prepared to take the advice offered by Fraser these problems will continue. No support from FSL I’m afraid.

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Antonino Fontana
27 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Unless you’re prepared to take the advice offered by Fraser these problems will continue. No support from FSL I’m afraid.

I’m not prepared to take the advice by Fraser since I want my NVIDIA drivers and Windows to be up to date. And if you ask me, FSL needs to help us with this problem since they are the developers and we are their customers.

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Ray Proudfoot
3 minutes ago, Antonino Fontana said:

I’m not prepared to take the advice by Fraser since I want my NVIDIA drivers and Windows to be up to date. And if you ask me, FSL needs to help us with this problem since they are the developers and we are their customers.

Read this announcement from Lefteris. https://forums.flightsimlabs.com/index.php?/topic/22002-17-june-2019-news-update/

 

Can’t see any mention of official support. Try raising an official ticket.

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Fraser Gale
2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Randy, I uninstalled Spotlights a long time ago for that very reason. Later drivers than 376.33 appeared to work okay because I suspected these crashes were down to Ai or a scenery Addon. But when you get a crash in the North Atlantic nowhere near an Addon airport then the reason has to be something else.

Given the amount of time I fly Concorde in v3 I’m not going to compromise my entire system to get that aircraft to work. In all honesty I don’t know why FSL can’t spend some time making Spotlights compatible with later drivers. I assume that product is defunct unless you use 376.33.

I will be updating to the latest drivers. I did what you suggested about inhibiting Nvidia driver updates and with today’s W10 updates it wants to install a later one but keeps failing of course.

I have no real problems with P3Dv4. I’ll just have to accept that Concorde is effectively broken on my setup and will fly occasionally accepting a crash may occur but a reload from an autosave will allow me to continue. Thanks for your advice.

I wish they had been explicit with that advice rather than just that message. Later drivers do appear to work since I never have a crash at an airport - only when airborne and miles from anywhere.

The fact there has been no comment from FSL on this tells me they have effectively  abandoned it. It’s 376.33 or you’re stuffed. I only asked them what card and driver they use.

VAS has never been a problem. I just keep the sliders midway and that’s enough. If I had an error message to work with it would help but there’s nothing. Bloody frustrating seems to sum it up. :rolleyes: 

I thought the general feeling was that what you have is it, why would they revisit a legacy product they no longer sell?  I am not saying I don't think they should (before someone gets defensive) but even if a new 64 bit version was being made they wouldn't keep updating the old one to work with newer drivers.   Apple are worse - I need a MacBook for another thing I do, and after it gets to around 6 years old, you can't install updated OS and then apps that are updated won't go on... 

I think it has been well known for a while that Concorde doesn't like Windows or card updates.   Have you tried uninstalling some newer Windows updates to see if it helps - Windows is the worst for wrecking a computer!

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Ray Proudfoot

Fraser, I don't think it's worth discussing this further. FSL have advised 376.33 drivers need to be running. If people aren't prepared to use those they will say that's the reason the crashes happen. I think it's fair to say Windows updates and Nvidia drivers are messing up this 32-bit aircraft. There's no point rolling back updates when I had one succesful flight yesterday and one failed one. It's a lottery as to whether I can complete a flight.

Given FSL have said they will produce a 64-bit Concorde for either MFS or P3D 64-bit I'll just have to bide my time. There's no other feasible alternative.

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Fraser Gale
1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Given FSL have said they will produce a 64-bit Concorde for either MFS or P3D 64-bit I'll just have to bide my time.

Have they actually come out and said this...? 

It is the second time I've read this from you and yet I haven't seen such a statement from the company.  Do you have other information? 

The "pause" statement left it wide open as to whether or not it would happen.  I'm just concerned that people read this and start asking when it will be ready...!

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Ray Proudfoot
21 minutes ago, Fraser Gale said:

Have they actually come out and said this...? 

It is the second time I've read this from you and yet I haven't seen such a statement from the company.  Do you have other information? 

The "pause" statement left it wide open as to whether or not it would happen.  I'm just concerned that people read this and start asking when it will be ready...!

If MFS can cope with supersonic flight and the SDK gives them the means to produce a version then yes, that is certainly an option. That was the impression Andrew gave me at Cosford. I read somewhere here that they would only produce one 64-bit Concorde. Either for MFS or P3D v5. Which one depends on Microsoft I think. FSL have to develop for the one which will attract the most customers.

There should be some update when Microsoft release the aeronautical data due this month I believe. Just guessing but that might trigger communication between 3rd party aircraft developers and the MFS team. But if there’s a NDA then we may have to be patient.

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Konstantin

Isn't 182.05 and not 376.33 the last stable driver that would not spit out the DXGI (or whatever) error?  To my knowledge, the drivers after 376.33 suffered from a serious VAS leak, until 182.05 had it resolved. The drivers that followed later caused the DXGI error with some video cards.

@Ray Proudfoot I visit the Active Sky Forum from times to times, and I saw that you had problems with AS16 and P3Dv3 recently. Maybe this could be somehow related to your problems?  I recommend to do a full uninstall and reinstall of P3Dv3 and all of its add-ons (while having the 382.05 driver installed). Make sure you delete all related folders. This wouldn't take that much time (I think), since you are not using lots of add-ons for P3D v3. It's just that you will eliminate any potential unseen problems.

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Fraser Gale
9 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

If MFS can cope with supersonic flight and the SDK gives them the means to produce a version then yes, that is certainly an option. That was the impression Andrew gave me at Cosford. I read somewhere here that they would only produce one 64-bit Concorde. Either for MFS or P3D v5. Which one depends on Microsoft I think. FSL have to develop for the one which will attract the most customers.

There should be some update when Microsoft release the aeronautical data due this month I believe. Just guessing but that might trigger communication between 3rd party aircraft developers and the MFS team. But if there’s a NDA then we may have to be patient.

You are adding assumption on top of tiny facts here....  For your sake, my advice is to refrain from posting comments about the if's/when's and leave it to the company.   People who for any reason didn't see the official announcement might read your statement and think it is fact.

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Ray Proudfoot
1 hour ago, Fraser Gale said:

You are adding assumption on top of tiny facts here....  For your sake, my advice is to refrain from posting comments about the if's/when's and leave it to the company.   People who for any reason didn't see the official announcement might read your statement and think it is fact.

There is a world of difference between forum announcements and what you glean from speaking to people face to face. I stand by my opinion that FSL really want to produce a 64-bit Concorde if the new Microsoft simulator allows them to. They still love the aircraft and that comes from both Andrew and Lefteris.

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Ray Proudfoot
2 hours ago, Konstantin said:

Isn't 182.05 and not 376.33 the last stable driver that would not spit out the DXGI (or whatever) error?  To my knowledge, the drivers after 376.33 suffered from a serious VAS leak, until 182.05 had it resolved. The drivers that followed later caused the DXGI error with some video cards.

@Ray Proudfoot I visit the Active Sky Forum from times to times, and I saw that you had problems with AS16 and P3Dv3 recently. Maybe this could be somehow related to your problems?  I recommend to do a full uninstall and reinstall of P3Dv3 and all of its add-ons (while having the 382.05 driver installed). Make sure you delete all related folders. This wouldn't take that much time (I think), since you are not using lots of add-ons for P3D v3. It's just that you will eliminate any potential unseen problems.

When you install Concorde-X there is a message that states 376.33 are recommended. I'm not aware of a VAS leak with later ones and I monitor VAS via a LUA plugin.

Regarding AS16 the installation problem has now been resolved after manually editing the Registry entries. They incorrectly pointed to P3Dv4 and not P3Dv3. I have written to Damian asking they check the installer. I'd love to think AS16 was responsible for the crash but it seems unlikely. The problem with driver versions is very few people report back what works for them for P3Dv3. I would much rather stay on current drivers as that's best for P3Dv4.

I will give some thought to a clean install of P3Dv3 if these crashes continue. A virgin P3Dv3 and Concorde with no addons whatsoever would be the definitive test.

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Fraser Gale
4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

There is a world of difference between forum announcements and what you glean from speaking to people face to face. I stand by my opinion that FSL really want to produce a 64-bit Concorde if the new Microsoft simulator allows them to. They still love the aircraft and that comes from both Andrew and Lefteris.

Then allow those people to voice their views, don't pass them on second hand.

I will believe it when I see it and not before. 

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Ray Proudfoot

Fraser, your comment is noted.

Back on topic I had two flights today using the latest Nvidia drivers - v441.20. The first was from Lisbon to Manchester. Everything was fine until I was down to 4,000ft on the base leg to a 05R arrival. P3D crashed within a few miles of another crash two days ago. See the attached image. Red X is today's crash, Blue X is 2 days ago. Huge coincidence that suggests a scenery issue. But reloading from an autosave I was able to fly the remaining part of the flight.

I later swapped into a Bonanza and flew around the suspect areas. No crashes.

ConcordeCrash.jpg?dl=0

My second flight was LPPT down to GCTS. No problems at all on that flight. These random crashes never occur when I'm preparing the flight or during the climb out. Invariably they occur on the latter stages of the flight. What are the chances of a crash at virtually the same position on a flight of 1,000nm? Astronomical if the scenery is not the issue. if the scenery was the issue a reloaded flight would have crashed at the same point. But it didn't. And VAS was not an issue. Plenty available.

I'm hoping to get Process Monitor loaded so it can check the state of the system at the point of a crash. There's nothing in event viewer.

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Randy Reade

Some addons will not play with ProcMon. How was your VAS at the time? It really sounds like you exceeded the limit, which typically happens near the end of a flight. I remember if I saved then reloaded near the approach that I would get back enough memory to finish the flight.

It has been a long time since I flew the Concorde but I just aligned the INS at JFK, then decided to change my position to the Active Rwy and CTD while scenery was loading with nothing in Event Viewer. Maybe a CIVA issue?

It just reminds me why I've stuck to P3Dv4.

Btw, not that it really matters but you have the XP11 scenery database selected in LNM.

Randy

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Ray Proudfoot

Randy, ProcMon was recommended by staff at AvSim. In the absence of anything else it’s the only thing that might reveal the problem.

VAS, as I mentioned, was fine. Several hundred Mb remaining. In any case FSUIPC emits a beep when VAS drops below 200Mb and when P3D crashes because of low VAS a message is displayed advising memory is exhausted.

At the position of the crash CIVA wasn’t being used. I had switched to HDG HLD inbound to the airport. I’m struggling to think of what might have caused a crash at the same position after a 1,000 mile flight. There’s nothing there except Liverpool and Manchester airports, UTX Europe and FTX Global. Texture files. That’s it.

More testing over the weekend with some US flights. Completely different area.

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Randy Reade
26 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

In any case FSUIPC emits a beep when VAS drops below 200Mb and when P3D crashes because of low VAS a message is displayed advising memory is exhausted.

Ah, yes. I forgot about that. I was wondering if CIVA was the reason for my CTD. Good luck with your detective work. Very frustrating.

Randy

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Ray Proudfoot
34 minutes ago, Randy Reade said:

Ah, yes. I forgot about that. I was wondering if CIVA was the reason for my CTD. Good luck with your detective work. Very frustrating.

Randy

Randy, the way to check is to repeat the action. If it does it a second time then yes, it’s a bug. But no entry in Event Viewer is unusual. In any case any reproducible bugs would not be fixed by FSL although they could note them for any future version.

Of course the solution is just to taxi. It’s a long one to 31L but just add a bit more fuel and practice your rudder skills. ;)

I’ll change LNM, thanks.

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Ray Proudfoot

KJFK to KMCO this afternoon. Two third party airports. Flight completed with no crash.

Tomorrow I shall try the west coast of the US. Seattle down to San Francisco. These crashes are not driver related. I’m sure of that.

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