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Artifical Horizon problem / bug


Raoul Disteldorff

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Raoul Disteldorff

Good day,

I am loosing a bit of faith here to be honest, my Concorde X only loads up correctly 1 in 10 times, for the rest I always see this weird blacked out ADI....

I am using a default scenario (Piper with engines off), I also tried loading the Piper first and then switching to Concorde in P3D itself without success...

I reinstalled P3D v3 just for the Concorde so there are no other complex aircraft add ons installed into P3D v3. Has anyone got a clue on what could be the culprit causing this issue? As it is really frustrating needing to restart P3D 10 times in order to be able to perform a flight ( Systems seem to be working fine despite the weird looking ADI, I manage to start the engines and align the INS without any problems)

2019-5-16_18-26-54-590.jpeg

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James Burke

Could you post a screenshot of it after you have started the aircraft correctly - either using the ctrl+e command or just loading the default started panel state? Your aircraft appears to be mostly turned off in this photo.

Usually these problems are a result of doing the startup procedure incorrectly and leaving several switches turned off by accident, i.e. the AFCS switches on the bottom of the throttle quadrant.

 

Note that simply loading the cub isn't enough, the cub needs to be loaded fully and the engine needs to be turned on. When you switch to the concorde the engines must be on. If you load it and the engines are off or shut down immediately, you'll never be able to start the engines no matter what you do, the n2 will stick at 15% no matter what and you may experience other problems like getting the INS's aligned or the ADI may behave strangely like you've posted in your photo.

If it's not an issue of the aircraft being started incorrectly, I would suggest deleting any saved flights related to the Concorde in your Documents\P3D V3 Files folder and try again. If that still doesn't cut it there is a setting that you can put in the concorde's cfg file, I forget the exact name of it but I believe it's in the cfg under Renderasync section, search the forum till you find it, you may have to add a value called ALL=0.

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Raoul Disteldorff

Thanks for your reply, I tried starting the aircraft up from that state (trying three versions, ctrl  e, normal start up and the panel state one) but the ADI remains blakish.. 

Also when this problem occurs some texture files are not loading up, as you can see in the screenshot, the registration placard for instance has not loaded and remained blank instead of showing G-BOAF.. 

The next time I load up the sim I will however take a screenshot in a powered state. 

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James Burke

I've added some info in an edit to my post, make sure you load the concorde after first loading the cub in your desired starting gate and make SURE the engine of the cub is running before you switch aircraft.

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James Burke

Try this, go to the FSLabs folder inside your P3D folder, find ConcordeXgauges.ini

 

Go to the Renderasync section and at the bottom add

ALL=0

then save the file and try loading the aircraft as I wrote above. If that doesn't fix it you probably have a corrupted install, perhaps due to conflicting paths from a previous installation?

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Raoul Disteldorff

Thank you very much for the information, I thought loading the cub FIRST and then change to Concorde in the Sim would be an FSX bug which isn't necessary in P3D anymore, thought wrong then :P 

I will try that approach on my next flight then and see if it solves the issue. 

Regarding the cfg change I already added the All=0 some time ago as I had INS freezing issues.

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James Burke

No problem. It sounds to me like the method I described will solve your problem as people who suffer from this bug almost universally experience it after trying to start the concorde without loading a running cub first. If you do it like I mentioned it should run flawlessly every time, no more praying that the engines start after the long prep procedure.

It may be worth turning on autosaves while on the ground in FSUIPC so that if the aircraft IS screwed up and can't start, at least you can bail out, reload the flight and start the engines quickly without going through the whole startup process again.

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Raoul Disteldorff

I guess its part of a bad habit forgetting the complexity of that wonderful aircraft and its systems which requires some different approach to load everything up correctly before even starting the flight :D  

Many thanks again for the fast support! 

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Ray Proudfoot

Raoul, do you have Spotlights installed? I found they caused problems with Concorde and uninstalling them fixed the problem.

I haven’t flown Concorde for a while. I’ll fire it up tomorrow and check the state of the engines in the Cub on my saved flight.

I wish FSL would get a move on with v4. Having to stay with old drivers and reduce settings  to stay within VAS limits is getting tiresome.

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Raoul Disteldorff

Hi Ray, 

I have indeed installed the FS Spotlights add on and can't remember if I had the problems prior to installing spotlights, now that you say it I think I didn't! Will try to uninstall spotlights and see what that does. 

 

I too cant wait for the day when a new version of Concorde is released for P3D v4+ as in my opinion its the most beautiful and fascinating aircraft ever to have graced the skies

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Ray Proudfoot

Hi Raoul,

My saved flight for Concorde is the Cub without engines running. Once loaded I select Concorde and it loads cold and dark. There is a brief sound of engines running but that lasts for a second, no more.

I'm currently aligning the INSs and the ADI looks fine. Try saving a Cub flight without the engines running and then load Concorde. Oh, and uninstall Spotlights just to prove one way or another they affect things.

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Raoul Disteldorff

Thank you for your feedback Ray, 

Just to confirm, you load the Cub FIRST and THEN load the Concorde from within P3D, already standing on your desired gate? 

As far as I am concerned, spotlights has a history of causing more than a few issues.... 

I will try these settings once I get home and fire up the sim! 

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Ray Proudfoot

Hi Raoul. My startup flight is the Cub without engines running at a quiet airport to keep free VAS as high as possible. Make sure you continue from the free flight menu into the sim itself.

You can now proceed in one of two ways. Load Concorde whilst still at that airport and then choose a different airport / gate OR choose a different airport and then load Concorde.

Not sure either way is better than the other. Personal preference. But the key is the Cub with no engines running as that state will be inherited by Concorde.

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Ray Proudfoot

Raoul, one other point. You are running v1.40 aren’t you?

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Raoul Disteldorff

Roger that Ray, I will set the scenario up like you stated and see about the results. 

Yes I do have the latest version 1.40 installed. 

Many thanks for your help, really appreciate it! 

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Ray Proudfoot

Raoul, once you get things stable then you can save a C&D flight at your favourite gate and load that from the Free Flight menu.

I'm flying Concorde from EGCC down to Lisbon now. Hope to hear some good news from you later.

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Ray Proudfoot

Raoul, I’ve completed my flight without any problems with the ADI. 1h 25m from throttles forward to wheels down.

When you consider it takes a Boeing (and Airbus!!) another hour for the same trip you can appreciate how superior Concorde is. Recommended for the older pilot whose time is more valuable. :D

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Raoul Disteldorff

Glad to hear you had a flawless flight Ray,

I just completed 2 testflights, LHR-EDI and the return, but reloaded the sim between the two flighs, had no issues with the ADI. 

HOWEVER I found out that if I load the Concorde (no matter how) at an airport other than my last position (eg when I last was in LHR and now load up in JFK without doing the flight) I get the ADI problem... 

 

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Ray Proudfoot
10 minutes ago, Raoul Disteldorff said:

Glad to hear you had a flawless flight Ray,

I just completed 2 testflights, LHR-EDI and the return, but reloaded the sim between the two flighs, had no issues with the ADI. 

HOWEVER I found out that if I load the Concorde (no matter how) at an airport other than my last position (eg when I last was in LHR and now load up in JFK without doing the flight) I get the ADI problem... 

 

That's strange and illogical. What panel state is Concorde in? C&D? If so, with it loaded and okay at EGLL just switch to another airport. Then save the flight.

Exit P3D and restart it. At the free flight screen load that flight. It should place Concorde in a C&D state at your new location. Then go through the startup procedure.

At what point do you see the ADI problem? Still in C&D or later when systems are being powered up?

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Raoul Disteldorff

I always use the preliminary state after Concorde has loaded. 

If the ADI problem shows up, it is persistent and doesnt change, in both Cold&Dark and powered up state (Going through the checklist line by line) 

I will try the save flighy option then, uff so many things to try :P

(It seems that I got some sort jackpot regarding strange bugs..  :D

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Vimal Anandharaman

There seems to be diff procedures for loading the Concorde.

I just find the highest rate of success by loading in the cub (engines running) --> Concorde(engines running) --> selecting the cold and dark panel state from the fsl menu. 

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Ray Proudfoot
1 hour ago, Raoul Disteldorff said:

I always use the preliminary state after Concorde has loaded. 

If the ADI problem shows up, it is persistent and doesnt change, in both Cold&Dark and powered up state (Going through the checklist line by line) 

I will try the save flighy option then, uff so many things to try :P

(It seems that I got some sort jackpot regarding strange bugs..  :D

Perhaps that preliminary state saved panel contains the problem. Start as I suggested and save a C&D scenario and only use that. See if the problem arises with that.

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Fraser Gale

Everyone seems to have different success with different ways - I never use the default cub state, I always load a saved flight directly with Concorde and haven't had issues. 

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Ray Proudfoot
7 minutes ago, Fraser Gale said:

Everyone seems to have different success with different ways - I never use the default cub state, I always load a saved flight directly with Concorde and haven't had issues. 

I use that method too. The reason I suggested Raoul tried mine is because it's just possible a panel state saved with an earlier version might just be incompatible with v1.40.

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Raoul Disteldorff

I am about to set up another flight, will be trying the new ways to load concorde. 

If everything fails I think I will try the good old reinstall method 

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James Burke

The cub loading thing is not really a must for EVERYONE. It is necessary for those of us who suffer from the bug.

 

I suspect that there is a registry issue or perhaps a driver issue that's causing it for some people and not others. It may also be a simconnect issue. But loading the cub (Apparently some with engine off, some with it on) fixes it for most people.


Raoul, the ADI going nuts when you reload the aircraft sounds like the INS is getting confused about its exact position. Are you able to freeze the aircraft, update the current position (Use the p3d coordinates from shift+z, make sure the aircraft is not moving, maybe pause or slew mode will work for this?) and make sure that all three INS's are indicating the exact same position and then are in nav mix mode. I've seen this weird behavior when one of the INS's goes out of sync after the aircraft moves from one airport to another after reloading a flight.

You're right about how much better the Concorde is than everything else. I love flying over people on vatsim at double their speed. Even on very long flights with fuel stops we still beat 'em by a little under half the time. I do a frequent Tokyo-Honolulu-Los Angeles/San Francisco flight and always wonder what it would be like to complete such a journey in real life in 5 or 6 hours. Can you imagine being able to do a final section from LA to Vancouver then New York, Tokyo to New York in just over 8 or 9 hours. Last time I did a flight like that in real life, it was around 15 or 16 on a subbed out 777 meant for short domestic flights in Korea after our original airplane had mechanical problems that took it out of service. NO entertainment system, and several crying babies nearby... Uggggh.

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Fraser Gale

Yes James, the facility to cross the Pacific (just) in half the time would have been useful and was done obviously on round the world air cruises.  Although, I have to say that a little like the Barbados run, it was quite marginal when it came to diversion and tactical planning. It was really only doable because the RTW loads were never quite at maximum takeoff weight, so maximum fuel could be taken.  There were some airfields where the departure had to be done in the early morning before the temperature warmed up and limited the departure weight, and the big sector from Hawaii down to Fiji often had a bit in the middle where loss of two engines would have meant not reaching land, so the crews had their fingers crossed! This often happened on the BGI too by the way...

I think the loading of the ADI issue looks like something to do with the saved flight, but as the real ADI was incapable of such behaviour I am at a loss as to what to suggest next...

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Raoul Disteldorff

I think I found a workaround, I need to load concorde into Heathrow Gate 414 (My default scenario gate) and then change to another airport / gate, if proceeding this way I dont experience problems.

I doubt that it is caused by a saved flight as dont use the saving flights option, I load Concorde up and from there I select the C&D or preliminary state which are FSL Panel configurations which I have not altered with.

However if I load up at an airport from the scenario screen different to the one set in the default scenario (no matter if I load the cub first or not) the ADI blackout problem is there. Funny enough its the only problem whih doesnt seem to affect any other systems as I tried a short flight with the blacked out ADI, everything worked fine... 

And james, regarding flying the concorde in real life would be a dream come true, I always wished to have been able to fly on this masterpiece.. Humanity really stepped back in evolution on this one! 

For me Concorde is and will always be the real queen of the skies there is no way around it! 

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Ray Proudfoot

Raoul, you have a workaround which is the main thing. Hopefully v4 won't be much longer and we can put all this behind us.

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Raoul Disteldorff

Indeed it is Ray!

I hope to see it in v4, the last thing I heard was that they asked if there is any interest in a new version, has it been confirmed in the meantime that there will actually be a v4 version? 

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Ray Proudfoot

Raoul, the message confirming there was enough interest in a 64-bit version was sent out 18 months ago. We are advised work continues. That's as much as we have. FSL don't issue any news on progress which is frustrating to say the least.

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Fraser Gale

Frustrating yes, but as I've said before there is no other product that I can think of where you are constantly updated on development progress, so why should this be any different?  

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Raoul Disteldorff

At least it has been confirmed, them we just need to be patient, which I am ok with :)

There is no other plane that is so rewarding to fly! I mean the A320 is a nice add on and I enjoy it but its basically an on/off aircraft compared to the mighty Concorde! 

 

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Ray Proudfoot
42 minutes ago, Fraser Gale said:

Frustrating yes, but as I've said before there is no other product that I can think of where you are constantly updated on development progress, so why should this be any different?  

Constantly? Where did I say that? No one expects that but an occasional piece of news is not unreasonable.

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Fraser Gale

To be fair Ray, FSLabs have always said if they have news they will tell us, yet there are some folk that have asked for updates several times since it was said that Concorde would be revisited...

I totally get that it is frustrating running two sims (as I have to do) and I too hope that this will stop sooner rather than later, however I think we have to understand that FSLabs are under no obligation to give news updates so let's assume that no news is good news! 

We are lucky they allow such frank discussion on their forum too! 

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Ray Proudfoot

I’m in the same boat of running two sims and the problem for me is I can fly a 737-800 in glorious UHD in v4 whereas for Concorde I have to run at 1920*1080. Whilst the BenQ is an excellent monitor it cannot match a native FullHD display so the vc looks less than brilliant. Switching to 64-bit cannot come soon enough.

I know Andrew runs a UHD display for the Airbus so he’s in the same boat. I’m hoping that will gee him on a bit.

Even if they don’t provide updates you would hope that they would publish their future intentions and what would be next for release. If you visit the main website there’s absolutely no mention of a new Concorde. The only reference to Concorde is the 32-bit version is now available. Ouch! Surely that needs addressing if they want to attract new customers.

Perhaps more relevant than ever given an early release version is now available for X-Plane.

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Fraser Gale

Yes, but have you seen the X-plane version....?? It is TERRIBLE!!  Lots of "almost ready" eye candy and no realism!  Engineers panel doesn't work and lots of other things. 

Doesn't help that the guy flying it in the YouTube video clearly doesn't know much about Concorde at all. 

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Raoul Disteldorff

I agree, the x plane version isnt really worth to be called a simulation of concorde, it sure looks nice from the outside but thats all it is, eye candy. No realism what so ever...

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Ray Proudfoot

Fraser, coincidentally I saw it yesterday at a flight sim group’s monthly meeting here in Cheshire. The model looked nice enough but as you say there is no functioning FE panel but bear in mind it has been released as an ongoing project for €50. Later more complete versions will see a price rise.

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Fraser Gale

I'm sorry, I'm sure the developer means well and has good reason to release what I would call an alpha release but there are signs that said developer doesn't have the accurate knowledge to make it into such a complete simulation as FSLabs - simple things are wrong with it now, never mind the more complex stuff!  I certainly wouldn't pay for that!!

It's nice that you have a sim club, I didn't realise such things existed.

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Ray Proudfoot

Fraser, I did wonder about the developer’s knowledge. I was speaking to a new member who is booked in for the Concorde lunch and 30mins on the Brooklands sim. Having done it myself 3 years ago I assured him he’d have the time of his life. And I did happen to mention the sim was programmed by Andrew just in case he’s reading this. :D

Its a popular meeting. I used to take my old PC and flew Concorde. It always had plenty of admirers. The new one plus a heavy monitor is just too much effort for a six hour meet. But there are others who take their computers - mainly laptops for convenience and there’s a good mixture of XP and P3D / FSX with mainly older chaps. No ladies I’m afraid.

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Fraser Gale

Last time I was there they were still using FS2004 with SSTSIM so in that respect you could say Andrew was involved.  Students from the University of Surrey and another company were also involved though as it was quite a complex project when it came to interfacing. 

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Vimal Anandharaman

I think the only thing going for the xplane version is the fairly nice GUI for some of the functions. It a shame really, its such a difficult aircraft to develop without getting the proper support or help. I do hope that he will improve it vastly. For now, its faaaaar too basic (missing some key features) to be enjoyable 

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Fraser Gale

Agreed.  In my opinion (a non-developer one) you need a Concorde expert who says "this is how it worked in real life, here is where it says so in the manuals" and a team of developers to code the thing...

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