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Take-Off Performance


David Katona

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Tim Vancauwenbergh
On 23-12-2017 at 9:16 PM, David Katona said:

UPDATE: Available at http://wabpro.cz/A320/

 

Hey everyone,

I am planning to publish my take-off performance calculation website in a few days. Figures are based on FCOM performance charts. Basically it downloads the current metar, finds the MTOW for current conditions. Once you enter your actual take-off weight, it calculates FLEX temp and V speeds for you.

Let me know if you can think of something useful to be included so I consider adding extra things before I publish the website. Also, if any of you has access to real life take-off performance software, please let me know so I can verify I few assumptions I have having read the FCOM...

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Hi, I am currently trying to make a LIDO lay-out based EFB for the airline I fly most. I would like to embed your calculator if possible. Considering functions, you can take a look at A320-TOLGD (which is an excel file), it has the most important things in it (landing distance as well and multiple options for runway condition). Furthurmore, I would like to know if you are running this in php. If not, It could be nice to have an offline version (using javascript I suppose).

Great work! Tim

EDIT: V speeds are sometimes all the same:

CALC.PNG

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UPDATE: Available at http://wabpro.cz/A320/   Hey everyone, I am planning to publish my take-off performance calculation website in a few days. Figures are based on FCOM performance cha

Hi guys, I have enabled the W & B tab on the website. Right now kilograms only! First select engine type on the Take-Off tab, as different CoG envelopes apply. CONFIG: If you select a co

Just to show you guys what I am working on for the W&B page... This is rather for people who actually care about the balance   It will show the weight and balance positions and the limits. The r

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David Katona
15 minutes ago, Tim Vancauwenbergh said:

Hi, I am currently trying to make a LIDO lay-out based EDB for the airline I fly most. I would like to embed your calculator if possible. Considering functions, you can take a look at A320-TOLGD (which is an excel file), it has the most important things in it (landing distance as well and multiple options for runway condition). Furthurmore, I would like to know if you are running this in php. If not, It could be nice to have an offline version (using javascript I suppose).

Great work! Tim

Hi Tim,

My email address is at the bottom of the website, feel free to contact me for more details. But briefly: yes, PHP. All the data is in a MYSQL database, and calculations are mainly based on functions inside the database created specifically for this tool.

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David Katona

I am trying to add one more option: the ability to define two take-off runways (primary and secondary). Either different headings, or different lengths (or both). In this example i have programmed the same runway (06) for full length, but expecting an intersection takeoff, I also entered the runway length for that, so I have the figures for both, this way i don't have to fiddle with inputting numbers again while taxiing, only thing I need to do is to enter them in the MCDU. 

Let me know what you think. If this is something you might find useful, I will publish a new version with these changes in a couple of days.

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Brad Zimmer

I think this would be useful as well as having the Weight/Balance in lbs instead of kgs.  That is probably a bit more complicated than it seems but would be a big help for us in the US. 

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David Katona
22 minutes ago, Brad Zimmer said:

I think this would be useful as well as having the Weight/Balance in lbs instead of kgs.  That is probably a bit more complicated than it seems but would be a big help for us in the US. 

Yes, that is prepared for the next version as well. 

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Brad Zimmer
On 12/29/2017 at 2:23 PM, David Katona said:

Just to show you guys what I am working on for the W&B page... This is rather for people who actually care about the balance :) 
It will show the weight and balance positions and the limits. The red line is a projection of how fuel affects the balance - FSLABS simulated this so perfectly that even this matches real life. Green dot is zero fuel weight and index. Therefore once the take off weight and balance is calculated it will be somewhere on the red line. Data is just example, I am still adding the calculations. And of course it will calculate the trim setting, as well as underload, and the ATOW on the TPC page will be prepopulated from the weight and balance tab.

 

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Quick question...should the ATOW automatically populate on the perf tab once the weights are set?  I havent gotten that to happen.  Also, the last 2 days I too have gotten the “

Initialise load figures!” Message on the l/s button.  Other than that, this is a game changer!
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David Katona
2 hours ago, Brad Zimmer said:

Quick question...should the ATOW automatically populate on the perf tab once the weights are set?  I havent gotten that to happen.  Also, the last 2 days I too have gotten the “


Initialise load figures!” Message on the l/s button.  Other than that, this is a game changer!

Brad, let me have a look. What browser are you using?

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David Katona
4 hours ago, Brad Zimmer said:

Good morning David.  This is on an iPad using Chrome. 

 

45 minutes ago, Edward Spence said:

I'm getting the same error on PC using Chrome too; same thing with Internet Explorer.  

 

Do you have cookies enabled?

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Brad Zimmer
3 minutes ago, David Katona said:

 

 

Do you have cookies enabled?

I am not sure.  I'll have to check when I get home from work as my iPad is at the house.  I can report back. 

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David Katona
1 hour ago, Brad Zimmer said:

I am not sure.  I'll have to check when I get home from work as my iPad is at the house.  I can report back. 

It will be working now. Also the loadsheet tab should now respect the metric or imperial selection, and convert the weights accordingly. 

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David Katona
4 minutes ago, Liam Carbin said:

Seems you have pushed a new update. 

How come the Runway Flex Takeoff Speed is duplicated ?

Yes. You can set up two different runways. Good if you are planning for full length, but expect you might be given an intersection take-off for example. You don't have to recalculate during taxi, because you can just prepare the numbers. The second set of runway data is not mandatory though, you can just leave it empty.

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Liam Carbin
Just now, David Katona said:

Yes. You can set up two different runways. Good if you are planning for full length, but expect you might be given an intersection take-off for example. You don't have to recalculate during taxi, because you can just prepare the numbers. The second set of runway data is not mandatory though, you can just leave it empty.

You are actually thinking of everything! Keep up the great work! 

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Brad Zimmer
11 minutes ago, David Katona said:

It will be working now. Also the loadsheet tab should now respect the metric or imperial selection, and convert the weights accordingly. 

Thanks!

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David Katona
2 minutes ago, Liam Carbin said:

Off topic: How would you calculate an intersection length? TORA - the number that is displayed on the chart at the intersections?

Yes. I am only familiar with LIDO charts, and those charts have a little arrow and the remaining runway length from the intersection. I think jeppesen might have a little table on the chart with the intersection designator, but I am not sure.

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Brad Zimmer

Thanks. Seems to be working again for me.  One question (and I’m sure it’s more user error than anything on my kg to lbs conversion), no matter what I do, when initialize and randomize the weights, when I enter the pax and cargo in the Mcdu based on the numbers in the tool, it doesn’t seem to give me the same zfw that the tool gives.   Could this be a block fuel issue?  I’m still trying to figure out going back and forth between simbrief And the tool and making sure everything adds up. Thanks

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David Katona
5 hours ago, Brad Zimmer said:

Thanks. Seems to be working again for me.  One question (and I’m sure it’s more user error than anything on my kg to lbs conversion), no matter what I do, when initialize and randomize the weights, when I enter the pax and cargo in the Mcdu based on the numbers in the tool, it doesn’t seem to give me the same zfw that the tool gives.   Could this be a block fuel issue?  I’m still trying to figure out going back and forth between simbrief And the tool and making sure everything adds up. Thanks

I never had that with KGs, tried it now with LBS and I was getting the same numbers in both the simulator and the tool. If you see that again, can you please send me a screenshot of the figures on the website and in your MCDU?

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David Katona
3 minutes ago, Liam Carbin said:

@David Katona Some clarification needed - Maybe im just being thick 

If im using an intersection surely I would need higher takeoff speeds?

TOPC.PNG

The runway is shorter from the intersection, so the speeds are moving closer to the minimum speed for your weight to get you in the air quicker. The longer the runway, the higher the speed --> this is for improved climb.

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Liam Carbin
2 minutes ago, David Katona said:

The runway is shorter from the intersection, so the speeds are moving closer to the minimum speed for your weight to get you in the air quicker. The longer the runway, the higher the speed --> this is for improved climb.

Well there we go! Learn something new everyday! Thank you for your speedy reply

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David Katona
4 minutes ago, Liam Carbin said:

Well there we go! Learn something new everyday! Thank you for your speedy reply

Well me too.... if the website is slower than usual, I know why : )  working on it... 

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Liam Carbin
10 minutes ago, David Katona said:

Well me too.... if the website is slower than usual, I know why : )  working on it... 

You need to add a paypal button so we can donate for this wonderful tool

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David Katona

So far no luck getting my hands on a dataset for runway lengths and intersections for public use. I have however prepared the dropdowns for the next release and a seperate tab where you can specify runways (with heading and length) and intersections. This way you only have to set up your favourite airports once, and then it is available for the public. I wonder what you think however, whether I should hand out a limited number of links with this seperate tab enabled, or just have it open completely so anybody can add anything they want - possibly more data, possibly more surprises due to incorrect data :) 

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Alexandre K

Well first thanks for the great tool.

However I don't understand why you would have to do that. I already took off from an intersection with your app : if you look at LPPR, I took off on runway 17 from intersection A3. So the runway is 3480m long, but on the chart (at least the Lido ones) it shows a little flag with "1800", basically meaning that 1) you can takeoff from that intersection (but this info is always stated in the AOI usually) 2) that I'll have to take off in 1800m. So I just go into your app, file everything normally but on the runway length, I simply put 1800.

So why would you want a database intersection ? (I mean it would be nice, don't get me wrong, but maybe I'm missing something). Plus, opening that to the public would end up in a silly database I'm pretty sure :D

By the way, are you planning to introduce flaps 3 takeoffs anytime soon ?

Thanks again,

Alex.

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David Katona
1 minute ago, Alexandre Kubatko said:

Well first thanks for the great tool.

However I don't understand why you would have to do that. I already took off from an intersection with your app : if you look at LPPR, I took off on runway 17 from intersection A3. So the runway is 3480m long, but on the chart (at least the Lido ones) it shows a little flag with "1800", basically meaning that 1) you can takeoff from that intersection (but this info is always stated in the AOI usually) 2) that I'll have to take off in 1800m. So I just go into your app, file everything normally but on the runway length, I simply put 1800.

So why would you want a database intersection ? (I mean it would be nice, don't get me wrong, but maybe I'm missing something). Plus, opening that to the public would end up in a silly database I'm pretty sure :D

By the way, are you planning to introduce flaps 3 takeoffs anytime soon ?

Thanks again,

Alex.

You would still have the option to manually enter whatever you want. And I have been doing the same. I’m rather lazy to enter the same figures all the time though (but apparently not lazy to program this new section :) )

Flaps 3 - Yes. Well I would just have to sit down and type in the fcom figures then upload it in the database. So as soon as I find myself in the mood for this, will do (few days..)

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Riccardo_Parachini

Thanks David for your great work. I think an open database would be a good solution until you can’t have access to some providers. Part of the take off performance process is to check runway length with Lido/Jepps chart, so it could be interesting and even with a user mistake could be useful to increase reality. So according to me it’s a full thumb up :).

Are you still planning to implement last minute changes on the loadsheet?

Best regards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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David Katona
20 hours ago, Brad Zimmer said:

Thanks David!  Do you still plan on doing a lbs version as well for weight and balance?

That should be working, but you have to select imperial on the take off page and then go to w&b

 

16 hours ago, Riccardo_Parachini said:

Thanks David for your great work. I think an open database would be a good solution until you can’t have access to some providers. Part of the take off performance process is to check runway length with Lido/Jepps chart, so it could be interesting and even with a user mistake could be useful to increase reality. So according to me it’s a full thumb up :).

Are you still planning to implement last minute changes on the loadsheet?

Best regards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Definitely :) free time is a bit limited now, but will get to it. 

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Brad Zimmer
On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 10:24 AM, David Katona said:

That should be working, but you have to select imperial on the take off page and then go to w&b

 

Definitely :) free time is a bit limited now, but will get to it. 

I checked and unless I am doing something incorrect, when I pick imperial and then go to W/B, the fuel still shows in KG.  Not the end of the world but I thought I'd let you know.  Thanks

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David Katona
19 minutes ago, Brad Zimmer said:

I checked and unless I am doing something incorrect, when I pick imperial and then go to W/B, the fuel still shows in KG.  Not the end of the world but I thought I'd let you know.  Thanks

Ah yeah, the label doesn't change... nonetheless, when it calculates the centre of gravity, it is correct. I forgot I put the unit of measure in the label itself :) thank you for letting me know.

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David Katona

I have added a simple entry from so if you want to save runway headings, lengths and intersections, you can. If you set up an airport and you know all is good and want to lock it, so nobody can touch it, let me know and I can lock it (I have set up LKPR and locked). Once a runway or intersection is added, it becomes available on the take off performance page. This is completely optional, as you can still manually enter heading and runway length on TPC page just as before. Didn't have too much time to play with it, so let me know if you find something wrong.

 

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Christoph Hackenberger

Have added LOWW to the Database and you can lock it. Also found a little bug: The designator for rwy 33 is missing but instead there are two 34 designators.

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David Katona
57 minutes ago, Christoph Hackenberger said:

Have added LOWW to the Database and you can lock it. Also found a little bug: The designator for rwy 33 is missing but instead there are two 34 designators.

Thank you Christoph. VIE locked and bug fixed.

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Chris Dobison

Thank you for such a great tool which makes the immersion of the A320 that much greater again! I have added the various figures for LSGG from the latest LIDOs including intersections.

Thanks again!

Chris

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