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Is the a320 speed managment realistic ?


Flow Bloisi

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Hi guys,

 

I was this morning on LFPO runway 26 with a very foggy weather and modérate rain and few winds (im using ASN on realistic weather mode).I was maintening 195kt and i was a little bit delayed on the approach procedure, so i intercepted the GS at 1650ft (airport is at 280ft) and i down the gear and switch to managed speed for slow down on my VREF.I was expecting to do a go around cause of my higher speed at GS interception but the plane slow down himself fine and i landed.Standard payload was used and fob at this time was 2.8 (Kilogramms measure) landed with flaps full.

 

The question is, is this managment speed is realistic ? how can i pass from 195 to 140 with no wnds and only 1370ft (1650-280) and no speedbrake ? Does the real aircraft act like that ? i have few hours on the a320 like 50 for the moment but i find this strange.With a 737 pmdg you can't be at 195kt and slow down like that into the glide scope.So what do you think about that ? Iis any airbus pilot or more experimented simmer on the A320 can answer me ? 

 

Thanks

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Riccardo_Parachini

It really depends on weight and winds. As a rule of thumb you should calculate back 1nm for each 10 knots to lose. Keep in mind this is a conservative formula in order to be spot on final approach and with no rush.
On a 3 degree glide path it can lose up to 20kt per 1nm.
However the plane should be stable by 1000ft and MUST be by 500ft AGL


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Alexander Luzajic
On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 8:26 AM, Bloisi said:

how can i pass from 195 to 140 with no wnds and only 1370ft (1650-280) and no speedbrake 

You can't....I think to much to accomplish for such a short distance....True....with 737 sometimes on final depending on weather and on descent you got some acceleration but no such drastic difference and it gets "slippery".

But I had experienced same thing with BUS...(lets call it, manages well "deceleration"). Would be interesting to know in real life how it is...hopefully someone will answer.

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Alexander Luzajic

Sure...fully config.....but a bi un-realistic I would say. I am perfect landing with a Bus, and I am not sure if it can be such a big difference since I am TERRIBLE with 737. But if that's how it is in real life between those two, than it is what it is....

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Riccardo_Parachini

Guys normal deceleration rate is 10 knots each mile with the gear and full flap about 20knots/1nm. At 1350 on a 3 deg glide slop ~ 4.5nm VAPP (140kts) is reached in about 3nm so at 1.5 ~ 450. A go around had to be performed, however just for the argument, yes it can reach vapp.
Normal ops should be flap 1 approaching the LOC, flap 2 and speed 180 before catching the glide (to prevent the balloon effect) then on the glide decelerate until 160. At 5nm with 160, managed speed and gear down. Then f3, full.


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Aidan le Gras

Might depend on your rate of descent, if you were in level flight and capturing the GS from below at a weight approaching 66 tonnes then that would sound about right. 

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Would be interesting to know in real life how it is...hopefully someone will answer.

 

Agree with that...

 

4 hours ago, Willie Nelson said:

 

Might depend on your rate of descent, if you were in level flight and capturing the GS from below at a weight approaching 66 tonnes then that would sound about right. 

 

 

Nope, i was fine on the G/S approach but thinking like a 737 pilot i was sure to be too fast.The plane do his job and i landed, but im very interested by how the plane works on real life.

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Arto E.P. Karhu

Are we speaking of actual 737 or a simulated one, BTW?

-Esa

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Aidan le Gras

Ok, then I would say it's not too accurate as you suggest. I don't have the software as yet but in the real thing if you don't have the speed to select config 2 by 1800 feet then you'll need speedbrake to be stable by 1000 AGL. And in managed speed a headwind will only be compensated by ground speed mini so it's not as much use for slowing down as you might expect. 

In fairness though, these sort of things, I would imagine are very difficult to model acurrately. As I said I don't have the software as yet, I've just been stooping around looking to see whether it might be good for training. 

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Alexander Luzajic

Than each plane reacts differently on GS in same weather conditions. But what is in reality not sure.

20 hours ago, Rikypara said:

Guys normal deceleration rate is 10 knots each mile with the gear and full flap about 20knots/1nm. At 1350 on a 3 deg glide slop ~ 4.5nm VAPP (140kts) is reached in about 3nm so at 1.5 ~ 450

Possible... I know one thing, I am more stable with  BUS than with Boeing which makes me wonder, and perfect landing with BUS, which I "don't like" (because it is too perfect, that's all). Again not sure how is in reality....  

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From my testing the A320X is spot on with regards performance on the approach compared to the real world. In fact it is very accurate over the whole flight evenlope as far as I can tell

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Possible... I know one thing, I am more stable with  BUS than with Boeing which makes me wonder, and perfect landing with BUS, which I "don't like" (because it is too perfect, that's all). Again not sure how is in reality....  

 

Yes, the same for me, if the difference between the two planes is the same on real life so we can say perform a approach with airbus is more "easy" than a 737 airplane.

 

EDIT: Im using IAE engine instead of CFM, maybe are they more accurate on approach ?

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Alexander Luzajic
18 hours ago, Harrier77 said:

flight evenlope

While I understand the difference in dynamics and flight envelope per se, I don't see much difference between the two in terms of "feeling". Yes, FBW makes some difference to the point and I have to say I like it. But many other things don't make sense to me but I haven't found answer why is like that (which doesn't mean that I am right :) ) . That saying doesn't mean that BUS is bad, but if you compare similar FBW envelope with  777 FBW  than I am coming to conclusion that some things with Airbus makes more workload for Pilot and F/O or does it? ( activating descent, entering approach data manually, wind, ALT, etc in MCDU prior to landing, activating approach phase and LS). Not sure how it is in comparable aircraft like A330....but as far as I know A330 and A320 have a similar envelope and procedures).   I guess that's why we have Boeing people and Airbus people....LOL

As a simmer...I like both. And don't know if one Captain can have both licenses (lets say for 737 and 320 or 777 and 330). Not sure how that works in real life... or does it make sense at all.....

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Michael Avallone
21 minutes ago, alexanderluzajic said:

While I understand the difference in dynamics and flight envelope per se, I don't see much difference between the two in terms of "feeling". Yes, FBW makes some difference to the point and I have to say I like it. But many other things don't make sense to me but I haven't found answer why is like that (which doesn't mean that I am right :) ) . That saying doesn't mean that BUS is bad, but if you compare similar FBW envelope with  777 FBW  than I am coming to conclusion that some things with Airbus makes more workload for Pilot and F/O or does it? ( activating descent, entering approach data manually, wind, ALT, etc in MCDU prior to landing, activating approach phase and LS). Not sure how it is in comparable aircraft like A330....but as far as I know A330 and A320 have a similar envelope and procedures).   I guess that's why we have Boeing people and Airbus people....LOL

As a simmer...I like both. And don't know if one Captain can have both licenses (lets say for 737 and 320 or 777 and 330). Not sure how that works in real life... or does it make sense at all.....

A pilot can be type rated in the airbus and the 777,  many pilots are rated in several types during the course of their career.

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Alexander Luzajic
10 minutes ago, mike10 said:

A pilot can be type rated in the airbus and the 777,  many pilots are rated in several types during the course of their career

Good to know...I wasn't sure how it goes....

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Simon Kelsey







A pilot can be type rated in the airbus and the 777,  many pilots are rated in several types during the course of their career.




....however it would be extremely unusual for them to be current (and flying) both at the same time.

Remember that you have to be current on each type - so if you were flying both the A320 and the B777 for instance, you'd have to complete all the recurrent training through the year on both types, do the requisite number of landings every month for currency in both types and so on.

The result is that you'd end up costing the airline a fortune in training costs (you'd end up in the sim all the time!) and therefore generally speaking most airlines would limit you to one type at a time (and often you might have to stay on that fleet for a minimum length of time as well). And that's before the CAA start asking whether it's wise to have people flying such radically different types from one day to the next!

Obviously there are some cases where you can be cross qualified on the 320 and the 330/340 at the same time for instance though.

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Michael Avallone
1 hour ago, Simon Kelsey said:

 


....however it would be extremely unusual for them to be current (and flying) both at the same time.

Remember that you have to be current on each type - so if you were flying both the A320 and the B777 for instance, you'd have to complete all the recurrent training through the year on both types, do the requisite number of landings every month for currency in both types and so on.

The result is that you'd end up costing the airline a fortune in training costs (you'd end up in the sim all the time!) and therefore generally speaking most airlines would limit you to one type at a time (and often you might have to stay on that fleet for a minimum length of time as well). And that's before the CAA start asking whether it's wise to have people flying such radically different types from one day to the next!

Obviously there are some cases where you can be cross qualified on the 320 and the 330/340 at the same time for instance though.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 

 

True,  I should have mentioned that, some airlines would have pilots flying the A320 and A330  but it would be really unusual to see one current in the 777 and A320 at the same time. What I meant is there are pilots out there rated in both the 777 and a320. 

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