Kareem Maged

Will It Be Modeled This Deep?

33 posts in this topic

Hello,

Looking through YouTube I found a old documentary about Airbus aircraft, hearing the pilot commentary, I was surprised that sometimes they do not follow the ECAM actions to ensure saftey of the airplane, as if they do, some systems will be compromised, an example of this is from minute 18 to minute 23.

Probably Airbus has fixed such issues already and pilots are now more aware that ECAM doesn't show all arising problems.

My question is, will the A320-X be modeled this deep? where all systems are interconnected like it is shown on the video?

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Kareem Maged

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according to details that developers told us,yes.they all will be simulated.

But,ECAM is flawless.i'm a 320 pilot and this sentense is one of the most useful sentenses ever been in aviation:"trust avionics,more than trusting yourself".so,it is prohibited not following ECAM procedures.and here's the golden rule:"in abnormal conditions,first of all:proceed ECAM intructions.after completing ecam actions,when comfort,take a look at QRH.if you have enough time,dig out what FCOM says"

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Well, there are a few items where you need to use common sense and not strictly follow the ECAM without thinking e.g. switching off the PTU in case of certain hydraulic failures.

ECAM can't be 'flawless' because it simply can't consider or handle all multiple failures.

After 25 years of airline flying I naturaly stopped believing in flawless planes, systems, avionics etc.

Luckily the relationship between Airbus and their customers has dramatically changed for the better since Tims docu.

The questions is, does the FSLabs A320 loose the PTU if it’s not switched off in time like the real one ?

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Ok, real pilot answer! You can't and shouldn't always follow the ECAM to say anything otherwise is crazy.

The ECAM can't think!

For example, you have a bird strike affecting both engines on takeoff, one engine fails the other is on fire....

What will the ECAM tell you to do, you maybe surprised to know that because of the limitations of the ECAM logic it would ask you to shut down you only engine - clearly not the correct action!

There are also such things as ECAM exceptions which maybe the result of OEB's etc.

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Well, there are a few items where you need to use common sense and not strictly follow the ECAM without thinking e.g. switching off the PTU in case of certain hydraulic failures.

ECAM can't be 'flawless' because it simply can't consider or handle all multiple failures.

After 25 years of airline flying I naturaly stopped believing in flawless planes, systems, avionics etc.

Luckily the relationship between Airbus and their customers has dramatically changed for the better since Tims docu.

The questions is, does the FSLabs A320 loose the PTU if it’s not switched off in time like the real one ?

surely not sir!actually maybe youre much more familliar with 320 than i am(25 years > 5 years captain!),i was just saying its compulsory for cockpit crew to proceed ecam procedures,but i have to add that its not prohibited for only CM1(not CM2)to add somethings else(not against ECAM) by his responibility if he thinks that his additives will help passengers comfort or abnormal/emergency handling in cockpit,during non normal situation

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.....i have to add that its not prohibited for only CM1(not CM2)to add somethings else....

Ouch, that certainly doesn’t sound like good CRM to me.... :(

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"The questions is, does the FSLabs A320 loose the PTU if it’s not switched off in time like the real one ?"

There are certain failures that might lead to both hydraulic system lost if the PTU is operation during the first system failure, a case is when there is reservoir leak in G or Y and that would gradually kill the healthy system too because the PTU would try to pressurize an open system.

Even in the real thing this is dependent on service bulletin application. I can't recall the exact SB ref right now, but prior that the PTU should be manually shutoff if it failed to pressurize the lost system in certain time, after that , is done automatically.

We have simulated that ( the automatic implementation )

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Wow, sounds like a 100% A320 sim!!!! Wish our A320 would have that feature! (We even have a few really old ones where you have to pull the CBs when flying on BAT only)

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Ouch, that certainly doesn’t sound like good CRM to me.... :(

I think his point was that only the Commander can do it as ultimately, it is the Commander's responsibility to ensure the safety of the aircraft. Of course I'm sure the FO can suggest the action to the Commander, but the buck stops with the Commander and if he decides against it, then that's it.

Good CRM ensures that the Commander listens to his FO and engages with him, it doesn't diminish the responsibility of the Commander to ensure that all actions carried out are safe, not that the FO can do whatever he wants.

Also on the point of ignoring the ECAM, it is indeed allowed to ignore it and that's the reason as the above documentary states in that humans are far better at coming to a balanced decision than a black and white computer system.

Just my €0.02,

Regards,

Ró.

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... than a black and white computer system....

Thought they upgraded your Aer Lingus computers to colored screens, but I might be mistaken...

<ducks for cover>

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Thought they upgraded your Aer Lingus computers to colored screens, but I might be mistaken...

<ducks for cover>

Nah, the old timers aren't too fond of colour, said black and white always worked fine for them... :rolleyes: It's a slow process with them, we only recently taught them to stop calling the radio the "Wireless... :rolleyes::P

Yes, gone are the days of our senior pilots shouting out "HAVE YOU GOT GANDER ON THE WIRELESS SONNY BOY!!!" - It's progress at it's best... :)

Give it 10 more years till they retire and we should have coloured screens...

Regards,

Ró.

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read your airlines operation manual.i'm sure it will be like this:"CM1 has the final decision,but consulting with FO is one of the most important key points

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There are certain failures that might lead to both hydraulic system lost if the PTU is operation during the first system failure, a case is when there is reservoir leak in G or Y and that would gradually kill the healthy system too because the PTU would try to pressurize an open system.

Even in the real thing this is dependent on service bulletin application. I can't recall the exact SB ref right now, but prior that the PTU should be manually shutoff if it failed to pressurize the lost system in certain time, after that , is done automatically.

We have simulated that ( the automatic implementation )

??????????!!! PTU's only a shaft and two gear boxs Which connects Y and G drive pumps and it hasn't have ANY connection to resrvoirs!and over heats after about 3 minutes if the giving hyd press resrvoir is empty

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WTF?! PTU's only a shaft and two gear boxs Which connects Y and G drive pumps and it hasn't have ANY connection to resrvoirs!and over heats after about 3 minutes if the giving hyd press resrvoir is empty

I don't think you read that right, Konstantinos is correct, he said exactly what you said.

Regards,

Ró.

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I don't think you read that right, Konstantinos is correct, he said exactly what you said.

Regards,

Ró.

i thought he said PTU is a tube.if he didn't,i apologies.

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It's not "a forum", it's the official Flight Sim Labs company support forum where we all behave and treat each other with respect. Expressions such as "WTF" (which means "what the f..ck") do not belong and are not tolerated. I was quite nice in my response and I expect that you can be as well.

Thank you.

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now i've got another qestion:did you simulate "side stick priority" for shared cockpits?and are we capable of lowering the outside resolution in fsx one?'cause i don't really look outside in fsx after engine start

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Mhmm, take that away. I say I'm in neutral side but it depends on the situation. When reading about the bird strike thingy, I just remembered that the B737 has this CONT at the engine ignition panel there to prevent the engine from stopping after the bird strike! Free minced bird meat! :P

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These things are not a good idea or a style of doing something... We follow a set way of performing the actions.

Before flight review OEB in QRH (there may be situations published by OEB where we don't follow the ECAM - some aircraft also have an OEB reminder function)

Then it's a set procedure....

Memory Items

ECAM

Paper checklists, computer resets

Status

Airbus actually don't wish for the FCOM to be referred to inflight, and to follow that philosophy the FCOM references were removed a couple of revisions ago from the QRH.

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where are you from driver?are you a real a320 pilot and youre saying that above?my fcoms and qrhs are updated,and youre wrong on this case sir

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and there should be no discrepancies between your and our docs if they're updated(depending on a/c)

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Yes, I'm a real A320 pilot. I can assure you all FCOM references were removed about 2 revisions ago from the QRH. Not all A320 manuals are the same, for example does your FCOM have a standard operating procedures section?

Mine does, it has 1 sentence in it: Refer to OM B.

Most of the larger airlines have heavily customized manuals - or don't use Airbus publications at all (US Airways - for example the largest Airbus operator in the world)

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IIRC Lufthansa has the crown of largest airbus operator in the world now....could be wrong though

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Anyway, back to the point Capt. Farhadi, what date is your QRH and are FCOM references still included for the majority of failures? As I say I know my airline and have seen at least 3 other EU airline QRH's and they were all removed 2 revisions ago - save for a select few references in our custom section of the QRH.

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Gents-

this is getting dangerously close to being locked. I know "Bus_Driver" personally, he's definitely an A320 pilot and I am not sure I can say the same for some others who are here to provoke and cause trouble. This is going to be a very very final warning - if I see any more childish behavior, the thread will be locked and the instigators will be banned and removed.

PS. It helps to look up things sometimes, rather than simply open our mouths: US Airways has 240 operating A319s/A320s/A321s, compared to Lufthansa's 146, according to Wikipedia's list of A320 operators. Even if that number's changed a bit in the past months, I doubt it will have changed so significantly.

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i went and checked my docs.my qrh is from aug 2012 but my fcom is for sep 2009,you were right about fcom driver.but there are still refers to fcom in my qrh(i only check our EP-IEG qrh and fcom,i will check others in my next flights)

according to Mr. Kalamaras for getting back to topic,i was really curious about irs and adr errors.as i know,fsx is too accurate in positioning,but will your bus model these errors and how?i mean is that vias a random value or something else?something else is enough for answer!

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I think I once heard about it modeling the GPS sattelite constelation... I may be dillusional though (and if I am, please do consider this, it could get really interesting if you happened to be on some remote area and theres a lack of GPS coverage :) )

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