Lefteris Kalamaras

Update - January 2017

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3 hours ago, NormanSBowman said:

The range and scope of the replies to this update information(Thanks for the update by the way) is a sad reflection of the world in which we now live.We want it now!

The development team will never satisfy every customer with whatever is said in the update ,if that information does not suit that customer.We simmers range from early teenagers to a lot of the so called senior brigade living in a lot of different continents.We all have a variety of expectations and we all want our particular problem or wish to be at the front of the queue.Real life is just not like that.We all have to learn to have a lot more patience with life in general and with developers in particular.

People who have taken part in beta test teams will be aware that a simple fix often throws up unexpected side effects and it is at this point that a lot of patience is required within a  beta team.We had in the course of 24 hrs three lots of files to swop in order to correct a problem which over three sim platforms means a lot of testing time.No it is not as simple as some simmers seem to think.

We should all take a step back and reflect on what is being said and respect the developers judgement on these matters.They are the ones who have to have an eye on the commercial future of the project. 

 

Exactly my thoughts.

I can only hope the devs and testers don't take all that to heart.

Some may find it laughable, but my main feeling towards FSLabs is gratitude. And the feeling was already there when even the fsx version was not yet released.

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2 minutes ago, alexanderluzajic said:

All FT are HEAVY!! I have Boston as well and that one is light and never issues, but it says available only as DX9....

For me the worst scenery for VAS is JFK, I've FSDT JFV V2 + NY city by DD, that's my VAS benchmark, and I can fly from EGLL to KJFK with Concorde in P3D V3.4, so yeah, VAS is not anymore a problem

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4 minutes ago, alexanderluzajic said:

They are not capable making this to work...so we sound like optimists about 64 bit. Not sure how easy that would be (heard that they would have to re-write everything and not worth $$, remember, everything is $$), but would be like Holy Grail of personal Flight Sim. As far as I can see X11 would be future (according to some), but P3D and FSX is what you see.

I wish I am wrong.....  

Well, at least ORBX were pretty confident in their roadmap that P3D will become 64-bit in 2017 when they have announced their 2017 roadmap.

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Thanks for the update Lefteris, are you able to comment on your outlook for FS2Crew.  I really hope for the non professional user an SDK can be developed for this addon that does not require an upgrade to the Pro license.

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54 minutes ago, ai_ab said:

Well, at least ORBX were pretty confident in their roadmap that P3D will become 64-bit in 2017 when they have announced their 2017 roadmap

If that happens I would be first one jumping but with all do respect to ORBX, not exactly sure if that is true. Read on one Forum, that would be cheaper and "simpler" to make another platform than to make current one from 32 to 64. He was going into depth.....but I am not an expert by any stretch of imagination when it comes to programing, so I couldn't comment. 

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14 minutes ago, alexanderluzajic said:

If that happens I would be first one jumping but with all do respect to ORBX, not exactly sure if that is true. Read on one Forum, that would be cheaper and "simpler" to make another platform than to make current one from 32 to 64. He was going into depth.....but I am not an expert by any stretch of imagination when it comes to programing, so I couldn't comment. 

Be very careful what you wish for.  VAS issues (most of which can be avoided with proper settings) will give way to a slideshow of framerates as developers and users cram more and more eyecandy into their sims (large LOD, HD textures, static vehicles and aircraft, etc, etc.).

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It's better that LM fix memory management issues rather than take the lazy option of just going 64 bit. Otherwise we would still have all that useless data flowing though our hardware, which is already strained.

This is the right approach. Looking forward to the P3D release!

As for the "I don't have OOM or use those add-ons so why should I wait?". Wait until you stand in a line with a support issue behind users having issues caused (after case by case investigation) by third party add-ons. Then you'll be jumping on the forums about ticket wait times.

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Thank you for the update @Lefteris Kalamaras, a very positive message, from my perspective I am happy to wait for a stable implementation on P3D, and have no problem using FSX-SE to fly the Airbus. 

My only disappointment is in regards to the PRO version, I was really hoping that FSL would have considered splitting the product, and allowing non cockpit builders the ability to have cockpit sharing, and the additional bells and whistles that will come with the PRO version, I am hopeful that this will still happen.

As far as being a small team, I am sure that there would be a few regulars here on the forum happy to help you with forum organization (as I suggested to you privately)

Anyways please keep up the good work, you have a very special product, and should be very proud of what your team has accomplished, the best proof for me is that I have not touched any other payware aircraft since August :)

Best regards

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Guys, the real question is, does LM plan to fix anything? Or they are focused on the x64 version? The latest hotfix was released weeks ago and I would be impressed if they released anything soon now. From Lefteris post I understand that the bus is fine, just eats a lot of VAS in P3D. So we are in the hands of LM now, waiting to improve P3D, who knows if and when...

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16 minutes ago, mark767 said:

 VAS issues (most of which can be avoided with proper settings

I know...that's why I have none whatsoever....Took me only several months of tweaking, but got it going, pretty eye candy all over and running everything available on the market. I believe, because of million "advices" you can find over the million different forums and lots of experts,  we are the one to blame. If you mix and match all kind of things in our .dll and .cfg files and different settings in NVI no wonder why some of us have issues.....LOL.

19 minutes ago, matt_webb said:

As for the "I don't have OOM or use those add-ons so why should I wait?". Wait until you stand in a line with a support issue behind users having issues caused (after case by case investigation) by third party add-ons. Then you'll be jumping on the forums about ticket wait times

I couldn't agree more, but isn't that the same with every add on? I see no difference here....and they are all third party...aren't they. MS built FSX  and nothing else and LM built only P3D, so....everything is third party...;)

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9 minutes ago, Ifikratis said:

Guys, the real question is, does LM plan to fix anything? Or they are focused on the x64 version? The latest hotfix was released weeks ago and I would be impressed if they released anything soon now. From Lefteris post I understand that the bus is fine, just eats a lot of VAS in P3D. So we are in the hands of LM now, waiting to improve P3D, who knows if and when...

I don't think there will be an update in the near future. Maybe in a few months, maybe never (addressing the problems).

I bought the A320 at the first possibility to support the project and I don't want to install FSX.

Now a point is reached for me were the fun is over. Especially the fact, that the P3D version is now pretty much finished is really bitter. An update, that you have troubles with the aircraft itself would not be so discouraging.

Now we know the cause of the radio silence for this extended period.

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If the A320 works with 3.3.5, which many of us have rolled back to and are now playing with no issues, then I would agree that releasing now the A320 would be better than waiting for LM. 

If the testing program is designed for 3.4 (and it could well be that many hours have been ploughed into 3.4 testing and nothing else), then I can see the other side of the argument, that you don't want to release something untested on a previous version.

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So how come you were happy to release for fsx... A platform with numerous issues, no chance of updates whatsoever and mega vas problems?! Surely P3d 3.4 can't be worse! 

Like some have said before, I can't see a hotfix coming soon... If at all. I guess we're going to have to let this one go for now. 

The logic seems flawed, I can't see why you won't just let us have at it. There will always be issues, no avoiding that. I've personally never had either of the issues discussed and I'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat. 

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10 minutes ago, The_Richtig said:

Surely P3d 3.4 can't be worse! 

In it's current state (P3D v3.4 HF2) - is worse than FSX. 

Please remember that LM only returned from the holiday period last week. We are not sat on the A320 release, hoping they'll pull a magic rabbit out of a hat - but rather, exploring possibilities to see if we can do anything to improve the current situation.  

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Just now, Andrew Wilson said:

In it's current state (P3D v3.4 HF2) - it is worse than FSX. 

Wow... I stand corrected! 

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Thats it, I am giving up with the P3D release.

In my opinion its not a valid reason to say the VAS makes issues and we are not going to release the bird until it has been fixed. I mean who knows when the VAS issue has been fixed? Maybe in a few days or even in a few weeks?And yes I can understand you guys (partly) This addon isnt that cheap so its fully understandable to say we are not happy at this point so we continue work to release the best product we can develope for you. 

If I were you I would release this aircraft. It may be true that some people would have VAS issues but some people would not have problems. And its all about testing. When you involve the community (all of us) it can help finding compromises for a stable run (for now). For me I have no VAS issues because I havent every slider maxed out. I think it would be more fun to fly this awesome aircraft in P3D with less graphics than waiting until LM fixed this issue.

I just love the A320 series even in real life. It however is such a beauty and  its really sad ( and frustrating as you said ) to hope for good news every day. Many of us are only waiting for the A320 Series. A lot of people dont care about a 747,787 or even a CRJ and I am one oft hem.  In a nutshell ist just frustraiting as hell to continue waiting. Who wonders that people try to install the FSX product in P3D, lol... <_<

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So it looks like we are waiting for LM to stabilize P3D before we get the airbus.

Let me please give my (unsolicited) opinion:

As a customer: I cant agree, at all. I own the airbus in FSX but i only got it for that platform to train for the big release... the P3D one. To me its more cumbersome to have FSX installed, with its own bugs, missing a lot of addons, with its VAS problems (On my case im yet to have one in P3D 3.4 but can get one fairly easy on FSX), performance problems, etc than it is to have it in P3D, even with the problems reported. As a customer im responsible for what i buy. I know the state of the P3D platform, If i buy the bus in P3D i know what im getting into. Im one of those who gets DXGI_ERROR_BLABLA from time to time, but guess what? i will get those anyway. So what do you think i prefer? If i will have crashes anyway then i prefer to get them while flying my airbus and not on the 737.

I will get crashes anyway. You aren't protecting us from anything. P3D will continue crashing and its not your role to fix it. I get crashes on the 737, 777, Q400, CJ2 and im here with arms wide open waiting to get them on the Airbus. You know why? because P3D its not your plaform, its not your code base. I guess @Andrew Wilson cant commit on their repos.

As a developer: I do respect your choice but cant agree either. You need to stand behind YOUR product (And you do), not your product and someone else's product. You don't need to babysit LM. You dont have control of their code, their priorities, their vacation schedule, etc. What if the next patch is 6 months down the line and when it arrives it isn't any magic cure? If you know your product is stable to the best of your possibilities then release it already. As big as your beta team may be you wont be able to test it as deeply as thousands of customers will. If you wait we will find bugs. If you release it we will find bugs anyway. that's the nature of our business. 

If the problem is complains then please create a new forum badge named "Wont complainers", stamp one on my account and point me in the direction to buy the (upgrade) license.

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In my opinion it also depends on FSLABS A320 VAS usage compared to other aircraft models available for P3D, especially the ones that have the highest VAS usage, that can be used as a certain reference point. E.g. PMDG 777 requires more VAS than any other aircraft that I own and it is possible to apply tweaks in order to avoid OOM errors. So if FSLABS A320 requires significantly more VAS than 777 then this might be a serious issue. However, if it requires about the same amount of VAS or less then it really can't be worse than we already have.

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2 hours ago, The_Richtig said:

A platform with numerous issues, no chance of updates whatsoever and mega vas problems?! Surely P3d 3.4 can't be worse! 

But as far as I can see there is an issue with P3D, no? Numerous complains on 777, a320X for P3D can't be launched because of some problems with LM etc. So not exactly sure where are the problems.

One example...from someone who knows (comment bellow).....So I would say that P3D goes in wrong direction at the moment. Personally I think is same s.... considering issues I read on other forums.

 

2 hours ago, Andrew Wilson said:

In it's current state (P3D v3.4 HF2) - is worse than FSX. 

 

1 hour ago, cyberstudio said:

i will get those anyway. So what do you think i prefer? If i will have crashes anyway then i prefer to get them while flying my airbus and not on the 737.

I think the point is not to have them at all! I guess you would agree with that. I have none with A320X. Why? Don't know. Perhaps I installed to many times....and was lucky, once I got it right....:rolleyes: But again, I am Boeing guy, but respect AB.....lol

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So guys, which forum are you going to post on when you fire up the Airbus on P3D and you get an OOM?

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1 minute ago, Ifikratis said:

@cyberstudio, couldn't agree more !

 

Think about it: The P3D release has been tested a lot more than the FSX release. It has benefited from a longer beta period, when bugs where discovered in FSX those fixes where applied on P3D also, so the P3D edition 1.0 should be a lot better than the FSX 1.0 release.

If its not ready then its not ready. I also hate when im developing something in my work that *i* as the developer think its unfinished or needs a lot of testing and someone starts pushing me to release it. But if the product is as good as what we have in FSX or what we got when it launched last year, then i dont get the cons of releasing it :mellow:

Before someone jumps at me... Dont worry. I know. I know they wont release it just because we are complaining. I'm just expressing my frustration and after that will go back to wait. 

As Jesus said on Matthew 6:27 "Can any one of you by posting on the forums, bring the FSL A320 release sooner?"

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6 minutes ago, matt_webb said:

So guys, which forum are you going to post on when you fire up the Airbus on P3D and you get an OOM?

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OOM on the gate? So what is your VAS fooprint estimate of the Airbus in P3D?

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4 minutes ago, matt_webb said:

So guys, which forum are you going to post on when you fire up the Airbus on P3D and you get an OOM?

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Browsers have tabs, my friend :lol:

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4 minutes ago, matt_webb said:

So guys, which forum are you going to post on when you fire up the Airbus on P3D and you get an OOM?

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That is my point of my previous post. At what moment does a developer say that their product bugged. If FSlabs Airbus installed well on vanilla P3D, couldn't we say that their product is stable enough. As I said so many addons involved in both FSX and P3D, at what moment does a developer be responsible to find a work around IF no one can't or not 100% sure to pin-point the cause of a CTD for example?

IMO every developer needs to divine for themselves at what moment is their product stable enough considering that there are other addons. SDK should be used to guarantee compatibility otherwise there is no guidelines

Anyway, as @cyberstudio said us, customers, complaining will not get the bus to be released and we will be waiting. But if there is a voting system now it would be a down vote for me for FSLabs 

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9 minutes ago, Hendrik said:

IMO every developer needs to divine for themselves at what moment is their product stable enough considering that there are other addons. SDK should be used to guarantee compatibility otherwise there is no guidelines

That make sense.....providing they know exactly what is "inside" FSX or P3D....meaning they were not involved in making neither...or those that left MS in early days didn't worked on entire source code....making FSX at least vulnerable platform for any future add-on, but they could smell good business opportunity..... my take....

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OOM on the gate? So what is your VAS fooprint estimate of the Airbus in P3D?



You completely missed my point. My point is that users will go to this forum, post hear and call on FSL staff to diagnose. Even though the problem lays elsewhere.


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Take your time and keep up the great work!
 

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10 minutes ago, matt_webb said:


You completely missed my point. My point is that users will go to this forum, post hear and call on FSL staff to diagnose. Even though the problem lays elsewhere.


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Just as they did when the FSX release happened, and just as they will do when FSL releases the P3D version. That's the nature of the business: Problems will happen, bugs that are hidden now will come out when the product reaches the masses. This is a complex piece of software, running on top of an outdated platform, modded to death by every user, constrained by resources, etc. On top of that, you wont find 2 users running the same setup. Problems will happen. Now, 6 months from now, a year, it doesn't matter.

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24 minutes ago, matt_webb said:


You completely missed my point. My point is that users will go to this forum, post hear and call on FSL staff to diagnose. Even though the problem lays elsewhere.
 

I don't think I missed the point. Cause this is the only way someone could point the finger to FSLabs. Launching the FSL A320 at the gate, where on the same scenario he has a PMDG T7 with 600Mb free VAS, while loading the FSL gets an immediate OOM. Other than that extreme VAS "leak", anyone knows that its LM's problem to reduce VAS usage if he gets an OOM on final. And again..why not save and restart on T/D ? This solves any OOM issue for me, and it takes 2 minutes. I bet everyone would rather lose 2 minutes on cruise, instead of waiting some more months for the next "when its ready" update.

By the way, people complaining should not be a reason to not release. What matters is if the product is acceptably ready, not what other add-on developers are doing.

And besides all, there is an emotional part, that FSLabs fails to understand. While they know how much we want the Airbus, they hold back P3D users because of a platform issue which is not even an issue for all and that it can be solved by a simple save/re-launch of the sim.

Moreover, there are now two group of people. FSX and P3D users. It is difficult not to see what has happened. FSX users have got the product first, and not only that, they got two updates since with a third update coming soon. Then there are the many P3D users, who have paid to support the team. And its not the money I am thinking, as I'd buy it when available either way even if I hadn't bought the FSX version. It is the emotional part, that they don't feel how much we have waited for it since September to get today a post which sounds to my ears like "if and when LM does something better we will update you". For me this is not caring about us. And I would take everything back if a team member would be a little more explanatory and tell us what is exactly the problem. If the problem is that with FSL in P3D you get an OOM right on the gate, then we would understand that there is a serious memory bug somewhere. Cause I don't get OOM with the PMDG T7 on heavy airports like that. But this is not the impression given today. Today we learned that P3D version is ready and they wait for LM to make their platform even better with completely unknown timeframe. 

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This is very disappointing news fslabs. Just because other users of P3D are having issues does not mean all of us are! I have not oom'd since i have updated to LM hotfix 2 for 3.4 and this past weekend i successfully finished a PMDG 777 flight from Flytampa Amsterdam with Flytampa St.Maarten without any issues. If you are going to delay the release until LM can fix the issues the least you can do is offer compensation to people who have bought the FSX version within the last 30 days and give them a free upgrade for P3D because of this problem and not to mention we have waited for this since September. 

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3 minutes ago, WayneG said:

This is very disappointing news fslabs. Just because other users of P3D are having issues does not mean all of us are! I have not oom'd since i have updated to LM hotfix 2 for 3.4 and this past weekend i successfully finished a PMDG 777 flight from Flytampa Amsterdam with Flytampa St.Maarten without any issues. If you are going to delay the release until LM can fix the issues the least you can do is offer compensation to people who have bought the FSX version within the last 30 days and give them a free upgrade for P3D because of this problem and not to mention we have waited for this since September. 

Compensation? No, they dont need/have to. I got the FSX version mainly to show my support and to see how good it was, as my real platform is P3D. But they didnt promise us anything other than a license to use it in FSX and give us support for that. While it is true that a lot of us are waiting with impatience, its also true that what we got was an FSX license. They can cancel the P3D edition and wont owe us a dime. 

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IMO it would be better to just say no P3D version than hanging a carrot in front all the time. User can then have their peace with the hope of P3D. 

Edit: I would skip FSLabs all together  than going back to FSX if it does comes to that, no P3D version. 

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8 minutes ago, cyberstudio said:

They can cancel the P3D edition and wont owe us a dime. 

Not exactly. There are plenty of posts from devs saying that you can always buy the FSX version, support us and when the P3D version is out pay the difference. So, many have bought the FSX version mainly to support the team and knowing that their money won't get lost as they will buy the P3D when is out.

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13 minutes ago, cyberstudio said:

Compensation? No, they dont need/have to. I got the FSX version mainly to show my support and to see how good it was, as my real platform is P3D. But they didnt promise us anything other than a license to use it in FSX and give us support for that. While it is true that a lot of us are waiting with impatience, its also true that what we got was an FSX license. They can cancel the P3D edition and wont owe us a dime. 

I just hope maybe in the next week or two we will see the release, I guess it is better to have a well optimized version as much as we can get. At least we know it's ready to be released, just need Lockheed to fix the 2 issues before they release the beast! :) 

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4 hours ago, Andrew Wilson said:

In it's current state (P3D v3.4 HF2) - is worse than FSX. 

Please remember that LM only returned from the holiday period last week. We are not sat on the A320 release, hoping they'll pull a magic rabbit out of a hat - but rather, exploring possibilities to see if we can do anything to improve the current situation.  

Well gentlemen I think when the bus is in release state, I would be happy to adapt an early adapter version(support on my own) for P3D with the knowledge of P3D 3.4 HF2.
So it could be tested on a larger scale simply due to the fact I don't have OOMs with P3D 3.4HF2, hence the VAS room is better as on 3.35 or 3.2. here local
Just tested the different versions again,l noticed a lot are running also alpha software ;-)
Hence I''m happy to prove that the bus installed here local will give no problems when it's in release state.

 

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Just completed a flight from Dubai to Bali on a PMDG T7 without any save/reloading , with 810Mb free to spare. 

Autogen complexity: Extremely Dense
Vegetation:Extremely Dense
Buildings:Dense
LOD: High
All shadows on
AS16/ASCA
GSX
2048 textures
P3D 3.4, Hotfix 2

Sure flying mostly over ocean and not into huge metropolitan areas, but P3D 3.4 is not that bad.

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Very disappointing news. I bought the FSX version as well, mainly to support FSLabs and waiting and waiting for the P3D version. LM usually takes months to release hotfixes, so I will not hold my breath. Had I known, I would have invested those 130 € in another addon.

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The worst news.........  

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10 hours ago, Ifikratis said:

Ok, we are running kind of the same setup then. I also don't have an OOM many times but just to be safe I restart before T/D usually. The worst places for VAS is EGLL and CYUL, on Simwings and FlyTampa sceneries.

Its a pity they don't release the P3D version, while we can just restart the sim at some point in flight and solve any VAS problems. Except its so bad on the FSL in P3D that you get an OOM right on the gate. 

I never had oom with FSX, Ftx global openlc, asn, chaseplane, some addons airports, the thing is with right config and dx10, even with a turn around flight there is no oom for me. And if you see that you have high vas like u said, just restart fsx.

The only reason that im waiting for p3d is for graphic enhancement. Just don't understand why people are so upset with fsx even stop flying 320x just because of it and then lose patience on the release of p3d version. 

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In my opinion it's a nonsense not to release the P3D bus only because of the "fear" that people may get that DXGI_ERROR crash... Most people don't have it? All those who don't have Chaseplane don't have it? Ok, release it, then! I don't have CP but have PTA and never had that error.... It would be crazy if all developers refrained from issuing their products only because some users report an error with the sim, probably due to other addons...

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1 hour ago, jgoggi said:

In my opinion it's a nonsense not to release the P3D bus only because of the "fear" that people may get that DXGI_ERROR crash... Most people don't have it? All those who don't have Chaseplane don't have it? Ok, release it, then! I don't have CP but have PTA and never had that error.... It would be crazy if all developers refrained from issuing their products only because some users report an error with the sim, probably due to other addons...

Graphic manipulators  like re shade that cause DX errors..

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I would think the devs know a lot better than us about the wider implications of these issues with the current release. I see a lot of jumping to conclusions in this thread.

I'm in the same boat as a lot of posters here. I don't have the HDD space for both P3D and FSX, so I removed P3D to install FSX just for the 'Bus. I can't wait to go back.

The storm will pass, the teacup will be full and we can take a sip and enjoy it soon and then we'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

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I have got to say, I am very patient but also very disappointed at this. I have been happily running 3.4 HF2 and can quite happily run with sliders maxed, ORBX products, PMDG products, GSX etc with no issues. I often land at complex addon airports with 500-800MB VAS remaining. I have never had the DXGI errors.

When I bough the FSX A320 I thought the P3D would be at most a couple of months away; now it is looking like 6-8 months may be more realistic..

That said, I appreciate what their intentions are, myself coming from an IT background.

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